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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
 Posted - 17/04/2008 : 20:09:22
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Hi,
I am now at my wit's end with HMRC after having another appeal rejected. I've received my paper file (some records missing and I am still waiting phone call files etc.
I have been asked to pay back £3,378.49. I have actually been paying £50 a month for a year and after receiving a court summons letter for non payment, decided to yet again fight it.
I am now on my 5th appeal on the overpayments. The overpayments are for 3 seperate amounts for year 2004 - to 2006. The first payment is due to HRMC not actioning information that I had given them that my partner was moving in. I was told previously and have a copy on file that the overpayment was due to me not being responsible for my child. Their last response was for this overpayment was that I did not inform of this information until 27th April, this is despite them receiving and stamping a joint claim form on the 31st March, nearly a month previous. I have put all this down but they have ignored it and their response is now that I am not sending in any new information.
The overpayments in 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 were due to my partner's income being missed off the claim, funnily enough the photocopied claim form in March 2004 looks like it has tipex on the income figures! I telephoned 4 times in 2004 and once in 2005 to correct it and to change hours. HRMC response is no record of these calls however there is a note recorded that there was no income details (again HRMC ignored my point on this!). I have also two recorded notes that my case has been affected by the running of TT508015.
I am getting into a bit of a state about it, I'm now a single mother, working full time and just about meeting my bills and the stress of this is causing depresssion! I can't understand how I can be expected to pay this back when they are ignoring plain evidence that I have informed them on facts and what I can do next. Any advice would be helpful!
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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 17/04/2008 : 20:38:02
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| Sorry, I forgot to add that the initial overpayment was for 716.52 which I had a letter stating that the appeal had been successful as it was a mistake from single claim to joint claim. I then had a overpayment letter saying it was due to me not being responsible for my child, obviously I disputed but was unsuccessful. Then I received a letter today stating it was due to delay in single to joint claim again! OMG!!!! THe sheer unbelievable incompetence astounds me! How can I argue against the reason for overpayments when the reason keeps changing and when they agree with appeal then a year later say I have to overpay it!!!! OMG ! I have actually written a letter of complaint with no joy¬! I don't really want to go through the media bit as I work for social services with families in need (beginning to feel like I am one myself) and it would be difficult having personal details printed. |
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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2008 : 15:51:29
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Another update and possibly helpful codes for people in similar situations.
I have telephoned HRMC today to get clarification on the codes on my file. No one is able to tell me what the code TT508015 means but I have been told on one of my records when I changed to a single to a joint claim and rang up about the income details, it states that I finalised my single claim and started a joint claim to clear rules 3. I have been told that this means basically that the system does not always recognise that the single claim has stopped when a joint claim has started. The very helpful lady on the desk said it is when one part of the system is not talking to another! Therefore this is a system error not claimaint. If anyone else has this on their file and is being asked to pay back overpayment from a single to joint claim, check if this is on the records!
I am going to continue to fight this especially after now being told today that my childcare provider (which I have had for 6 years!!!) is not on the system now! It has not been transfered over from the joint claim. I shall not be surprised if I now get another overpayment request from year 2007-2008! |
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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2008 : 15:52:21
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Another update and possibly helpful codes for people in similar situations.
I have telephoned HRMC today to get clarification on the codes on my file. No one is able to tell me what the code TT508015 means but I have been told on one of my records when I changed to a single to a joint claim and rang up about the income details, it states that I finalised my single claim and started a joint claim to clear rules 3. I have been told that this means basically that the system does not always recognise that the single claim has stopped when a joint claim has started. The very helpful lady on the desk said it is when one part of the system is not talking to another! Therefore this is a system error not claimaint. If anyone else has this on their file and is being asked to pay back overpayment from a single to joint claim, check if this is on the records!
I am going to continue to fight this especially after now being told today that my childcare provider (which I have had for 6 years!!!) is not on the system now! It has not been transfered over from the joint claim. I shall not be surprised if I now get another overpayment request from year 2007-2008! |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2008 : 23:07:12
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quote:
Originally posted by kerrbear01
Hi,
I am now at my wit's end with HMRC after having another appeal rejected. I've received my paper file (some records missing and I am still waiting phone call files etc.
I have been asked to pay back £3,378.49. I have actually been paying £50 a month for a year and after receiving a court summons letter for non payment, decided to yet again fight it.
I am now on my 5th appeal on the overpayment's. The overpayment's are for 3 separate amounts for year 2004 - to 2006. The first payment is due to HRMC not actioning information that I had given them that my partner was moving in. I was told previously and have a copy on file that the overpayment was due to me not being responsible for my child. Their last response was for this overpayment was that I did not inform of this information until 27th April, this is despite them receiving and stamping a joint claim form on the 31st March, nearly a month previous. I have put all this down but they have ignored it and their response is now that I am not sending in any new information.
The overpayment's in 2004-2005 and 2005-2006 were due to my partner's income being missed off the claim, funnily enough the photocopied claim form in March 2004 looks like it has tip ex on the income figures! I telephoned 4 times in 2004 and once in 2005 to correct it and to change hours. HRMC response is no record of these calls however there is a note recorded that there was no income details (again HRMC ignored my point on this!). I have also two recorded notes that my case has been affected by the running of TT508015.
I am getting into a bit of a state about it, I'm now a single mother, working full time and just about meeting my bills and the stress of this is causing depression! I can't understand how I can be expected to pay this back when they are ignoring plain evidence that I have informed them on facts and what I can do next. Any advice would be helpful!
Hello Kerrbear1,
Welcome to the forum.
Are all these overpayment's on your single claim only? Or does it span across both?
You say the overpayment started with HMRC not actioning informant you had given. How long does it take HMRC to process this information given?
You say also you have a copy on file that the overpayment was due to you not being responsible for your child. Was this a written letter or a computer generated one?
Do you have a copy of the date stamped claim form submitted 31/03/?? within the SAR documents?
It seems HMRC have now change reason for you overpayment, am I correct in thinking this?
Have you had numerous different replies from previous disputes or just the same response each time?
The photocopy of this claim form shows as though your partners income has been tapped out. Can you remember if you made any corrections to this form upon completion?
You say you are a single mother. Have your circumstances changed again?
Your point about TT508015, yes your claim did have a system error. But asking Helpline staff about anything like this, would be like speaking Zwahooli to an banana. They are not involved with any details of such faults which may, do and have occurred on the NTC system. They would spill the beans and open million zillion cans full of worms. I also know detailing it for the Overpayment's Team would also be pointless.
You have your SAR documents, are these both from joint claim and single?
Splashin |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 18/04/2008 : 23:50:10
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quote:
Originally posted by kerrbear01
Sorry, I forgot to add that the initial overpayment was for 716.52 which I had a letter stating that the appeal had been successful as it was a mistake from single claim to joint claim.
Can you remember what your weekly/4 weekly payment amount was from single claim? How many times does it go into £716.52?
[/quote]
I then had a overpayment letter saying it was due to me not being responsible for my child, obviously I disputed but was unsuccessful.
[/quote]
Was this letter written by someone? This seems to me like a processing error. When the system tells you that you don't qualify for what you have been claiming for, you automatically become overpaid. This has more than likely occurred because of a numbers of reasons surrounding the history of the children on the claim. From your printed SAR documents, look for the printed pages showing child's details. Make notes of Start/End responsibility dates and any include from dates. There may be many pages of this but note each one and also note any version numbers, issue/award date.
[/quote]
Then I received a letter today stating it was due to delay in single to joint claim again! OMG!!!! The sheer unbelievable incompetence astounds me! How can I argue against the reason for overpayment's when the reason keeps changing and when they agree with appeal then a year later say I have to overpay it!!!! OMG ! I have actually written a letter of complaint with no joy¬! I don't really want to go through the media bit as I work for social services with families in need (beginning to feel like I am one myself) and it would be difficult having personal details printed.
[/quote]
No one like to sing about there finances from the rooftops, so don't judge yourself for not wanting to go the Media Route. It seems to people who are in the same situation with HMRC that you just come up against brick wall after brick wall.
When there is a way to find out what you need to know.
If these case's which are showing overpayment's, have these 'Official Error' notes held within the clams history. Then these should be an automatic remission. But unfortunately, the rules are, if you can not tell HMRC about the exact fault on your claim they are under no obligation to inform you of any error. And this is exactly how it is worked. They will respond with baffle and limp answers to your questions raised, should they be relevant or not.
Look Forward to your answers
      
Splashin |
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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 19/04/2008 : 21:20:11
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Hi,
The overpayments are all from the joint claim. The overpayment for £715.62 was from 6th April 2004 to 7th June 2004 through my employer when I continued as if I was a single parent ( I was working part time).
There is a copy of the signed joint application form dated 31.3.04 but it is not date stamped by HRMC. I have argued that their guidelines states 30 days notice of changes to circumstances which it was however in my most recent correspondence from them it states they have to give employers 43 days notice and therefore I have to pay it back.
I have been informed 3 times since 2006 that the overpayment was due to no longer being responsbile for my child. My appeals on this reason has been rejected and until my recent later in March 2008, when the overpayment was stated as the delay in changing from single to joint. I received a letter stating the benefits had stopped (computer generated)as I was no longer egible for them having no child, then after sending in a birth certificate (my child's surname on his birth certificate than what he is known and stating this, my claim was reinstated. Their responses to my appeals have been that I informed them on 27th April 2004 that I was no longer responsible for my child, this was incorrect as I telephoned regarding my (then )partner's hours and income. THis follows on to the joint claim as for the whole financial year, my partner's income figure was at nil. They say they have no record of my calls but I have found a photocopy paper file of the call on the 27th April stating income figures missing and nothing about no longer having my child..
There are copies of start date of my child from his birth date and from 6th March 2004 (when it was reinstated). HRMC are now saying that this was not the reason for overpayment.
I have alot of files missing from my case files so I am unsure whether I have information for the joint claims. |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 20/04/2008 : 21:47:36
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quote:
Originally posted by kerrbear01
Hi,
The overpayment's are all from the joint claim. The overpayment for �715.62 was from 6th April 2004 to 7th June 2004 through my employer when I continued as if I was a single parent ( I was working part time).
From and including: Tuesday, April 6, 2004
To and including: Monday, June 7, 2004
It is 63 days from the start date to the end date, end date included
Or 2 months, 2 days including the end date
quote:
quote:
There is a copy of the signed joint application form dated 31.3.04 but it is not date stamped by HMRC. I have argued that their guidelines states 30 days notice of changes to circumstances which it was however in my most recent correspondence from them it states they have to give employers 43 days notice and therefore I have to pay it back.
Your overpayment reason was this. Where did the other 20 days come from then? I agree that 42 days is the lead in/lead out period required for PVE (payment via employer), but you must find something with income on from this employer from that time. If you were paid monthly work out days of month and divide any WTC by this. This will give you your daily rate. Multiply this by the 62 days and compare totals.
You must have some documentation amongst your SAR which relates to the start of your joint application. This will most probably be hidden in the printed pages, also try finding what is the date of the first household note? What date did they end your single claim?
quote:
I have been informed 3 times since 2006 that the overpayment was due to no longer being responsbile for my child. My appeals on this reason has been rejected and until my recent later in March 2008, when the overpayment was stated as the delay in changing from single to joint. I received a letter stating the benefits had stopped (computer generated)as I was no longer egible for them having no child, then after sending in a birth certificate (my child's surname on his birth certificate than what he is known and stating this, my claim was reinstated.
This was caused by HMRC not processing your change correctly. The reason you had the computer generated letter sent out was because, your child's details had not been ended correctly on your single claim and then transferred over to the joint claim.
quote:
There are copies of start date of my child from his birth date and from 6th March 2004 (when it was reinstated). HMRC are now saying that this was not the reason for overpayment.
So if this is now not the reason, what is????
Why was it reinstated 06/03/2004, when you didn't submit your joint claim until March 30th? There was obviously some error already before your joint claim began? On the pages which shows these dates, what does the include from date show as? And also what date is responsibility start and include from date? Do any of these same pages show an end date?
[quote]
I have a lot of files missing from my case files so I am unsure whether I have information for the joint claims.
How do you know what is missing? If you are speaking of recordings of telephone conversations, I wouldn't hold out too much for them. I have seen it time and time again, when advisor's give blatant wrong info to a customer on the phone to the helpline, it is just disregarded when used in any dispute I have seen.
Do you only have joint claim documents or do you have both single claim SAR and joint claim?
Splashin |
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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2008 : 19:56:14
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I'm sorry but whereabouts in my SAR would I find the documentation showing the end date of my single claim? I have printouts of application summary with employer details, childcare details, my details and my parters but many have no date or reference to which year claim, a couple relating to year 2003/2004 have the dates application received 11/2/2007 and effective date 11/2/2007 and for the year 2004/2005 the date application received as 15/1/2008. Obviously I did complete the application in the year claim not 3/4 years after so don't know how this would help.
I have changed employers since 2004 claim, have not got payslips and am not able to confirm how much tax credit was paid to my employer.
I have found an application summary from claim year 2003=2004 which states a household breakdown alert on 5th March 2004 notified by phone. I thought that I had telephoned before my partner moved in but couldn't be sure so hadn't mentioned before. Can I use this as a dispute or not? still looking through documents and have found some documents stating a date of 6.4.04 as the start date refering to a joint claim, would this be the date it was actioned on?
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Edited by - kerrbear01 on 24/04/2008 20:41:46 |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 24/04/2008 : 20:56:57
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Howay Splashin ... help the lassie oot here man!! ;)
Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother? |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2008 : 23:59:31
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quote:
Originally posted by kerrbear01
I'm sorry but whereabouts in my SAR would I find the documentation showing the end date of my single claim? I have printouts of application summary with employer details, childcare details, my details and my parters but many have no date or reference to which year claim, a couple relating to year 2003/2004 have the dates application received 11/2/2007 and effective date 11/2/2007 and for the year 2004/2005 the date application received as 15/1/2008. Obviously I did complete the application in the year claim not 3/4 years after so don't know how this would help.
I have changed employers since 2004 claim, have not got payslips and am not able to confirm how much tax credit was paid to my employer.
I have found an application summary from claim year 2003=2004 which states a household breakdown alert on 5th March 2004 notified by phone. I thought that I had telephoned before my partner moved in but couldn't be sure so hadn't mentioned before. Can I use this as a dispute or not? still looking through documents and have found some documents stating a date of 6.4.04 as the start date referring to a joint claim, would this be the date it was actioned on?
Kerrbear01
There may not be an end date to your single claim showing anywhere on your SAR documents. If anywhere it will be on the child details.
If you can answer some of the questions I have asked, then this will make it much easier to tell you were to look. If you want to send me this via a private message, please do.
 
Splashin |
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kerrbear01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2008 : 13:36:28
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Hello,
What questions in particular do you need answers to? :
The overpayment for £715.62 is from the single claim, the most current reason being the delay in being informed of my partner moving in. This overpayment was a payment through my employer and a bank account payment. It was a system generated letter stating I was not responsible for my son from 7th March 2004 but this not the reason now. I have numerous responses from my appeals on this overpayment stating different reasons from what I disputed i.e dispute non responsiblity to be told I did not inform them in time that I was not responsible to the most recent being it was the delay in informing of my partner moving in.
I have household notes referring to responsiblity dates of my son for both his birthday 22.7.96 and 7.3.2004 but no end date. I have copy of a summary of the end of a single claim stating the reason of HSBD by phone on the 6.3.04. If it helps I can send a copy of my case history? It is a bit clearer on there.
The other payments from 2004-2005 and 2005- 2006 of £2,229 & £899 based on my partner's income being missed from the claim. I have only just received my telephone calls, with just a fraction of them on there. HRMC are stating that I did not inform that the income figures were missing however I do have a household note stating phone call from me and income figures missing. There was also 10 award notices from that period (2004-early 2006) stating COC with pay, however no changes made on the actual form. |
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At a loss with HMRC
