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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 22:37:11
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Hi everyone,just got a cd through the post,with all my telephone recordings with HMRC,2004 to 2007 all 13 of them.I only want one recording that I made around April/March 2004 which I originally requested from them. It wasn't there to my disappointment.So I will have to contact them again.They want the exact time date and phone number it was made on.They must be joking!!! It's 4 years ago.
I was wondering if anyone knows the procedure they use to locate these messages? It can't be that difficult because they managed to track down 13 recordings I didn't ask for!!!!!!!!!!!
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 22:42:19
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Are you saying HMRC sent you copies of every telephone conversation that you had with them except the very one that will help you win your case?
Well there's a surprise!
Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother? |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 22:59:38
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Sure,Alan,that's why I want to know what procedure they use to track down these messages.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2008 : 23:09:18
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>> Sure,Alan,that's why I want to know what procedure they use to track down these messages.<<
A procedure to track-down these messages???
I'll say one thing for you Bonny Lad; you're a born optimist! The only "procedure" HMRC have is to bury any evidence that may be used to embarrass them!
However, If you hassle them some more you may be lucky and have the missing item "found".
It has been known.
Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother? |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
 Posted - 02/04/2008 : 00:43:42
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Enigma
Usually all calls entering the Tax Credit Helpline are recorded. This is to protect the claimant and also the advisor. These inbound calls are entered into a system called CMA (Claim Management Application), if I remember the full title correctly. The CMA system would handle all calls, as when an operator became free for next call. The CMA system would place them back in the queue awaiting the next customer. When the call is connected, the advisor would enter details of your National Insurance Number, which would then bring up your details. These connected calls would register a unique reference number to each entry on call history log tagged to your National Insurance Number. Then through that reference, they could trace advisor, computer processes made etc.
In my own opinion, everything was and still is traceable.
With regards to your call recording not being found. I do believe, this is very possible around that time you state April 2004. The CMA was designed to feed updates to the NTC Core of changes supplied by claimants. Around that first end of year close down of the tax year, the NTC Core stopped taking any changes etc from CMA because it was in the Renewal Stage, any changes made at this time would effect both 2003/2004 and 2004/2005 awards and histories on the claim. The CMA system became so full at the seams it could take no more. The system had to be manually cleared of its backlog before it could begin again. I would say this took about 3-6 months to begin functioning again. But was probably have been 9-12 months before it was cleared.
Any calls made during that time would not be dealt with via CMA. Callers were told system down, systems updating, preparing for the end of year renewal, anything really.
If the advisor you spoke with on that day was able to view what was on the NTC core, this is more than likely were your mis information arose from. Viewing screens on NTC core are hard to decipher, never mind explain compared to the screens on CMA.
I do think any calls can be linked to your SARN documents. There will more than likely be a trace in the histories. This can be from household notes, award notice's issued, etc.
     
Splashin |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 07:28:20
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In other words, even if HMRC can't trace the call, there'll be a record of it having been made somewhere?
Look at your mainly white pieces of paper with odd bits of printing on them, perhaps? Would these hold the key, Splash?
Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 11:16:09
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Thanks Spashin for your detailed explanation.The earliest recording HMRC sent me was 29/04/2004,which was a call I made to them in response to their request for my wifes National insurance number for the claim in question.So I know the recording I am after is not long before that.As I phoned them while filling out the claim form.
I shall write to them now and ask them to look again.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 02/04/2008 : 19:36:08
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Yes Ali
The details would be in these typed pages of SAR documents.. To most it will seem as though HMRC have gone bonkers with the photocopier, and sent re-print upon re-print. But if you look closely enough you will see that something changes, in the history of the claim.
Enigma
Keep us posted !!!!
Splashin |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 22:09:01
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Good day everyone.
Received a Notice Warning of Legal Proceedings today,which wasn't as intimidating as the first one I received concerning my overpayment.
I rang the number and informed them I was in a dispute and waiting for a reply from the Data Protection Unit.They said they would put it on hold for 6 weeks and suggested I rang the helpline to inquire what was happening.I rang the helpline and they told me,there wasn't a record of the letter in question on their computer.They suggested I send another copy and write on it this was the second copy and ring at the end of the month to see if it was on their computer.
I can only presume the Dater Protection threw the first copy in the bin,because they didn't want to deal with it.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 22:22:55
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>>Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination.<<
The fool who first wrote that has never tried to deal with HMRC!!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 22:36:41
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That was rather a defeatist attitude,Alan. Anyway, maybe I was the fool who first wrote that.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 04/07/2008 : 23:50:55
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I wouldn't have expected a DPU request to be on the TCO computer if the letter had gone straight to the DPU unit in Newcastle. Depends on where you sent it.
Secondly, a data protection request of itself is not a dispute, have you a dispute lodged with the dispute team. If not, I would send your DPU letter again and also send a letter to the dispute team saying you are disputing the overpayment and to put a hold whilst your DPU request is received. Whether they will do this is another thing, HMRC policy is only to suspend recovery during a dispute, although many times individuals will hold cases for longer.
MF2 |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 08:31:52
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I'm with Enigma when it comes to what's possible when you put your mind to it. And secretly I would say Alan agrees, as he has conquered his Nemesis, HMRC. And judging from my last letter from the TCO, me too!
Miss Froy's advice sounds good. Unfortunately, in this game, you need not only your dispute/appeal but a SARN request and complaint too - leave nothing to chance or interpretation. Different departments do different jobs, and the left hand won't always know what the right is doing. That's why it's common to get demands for money at the same time as letters sent in 'answer' to your queries. The main thing is not to ignore the demand letters, as they are the 'dangerous' ones. If you are struggling to get recovery stopped whilst in dispute, your MP can certainly help with that one.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 20:15:19
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>>And secretly I would say Alan agrees, as he has conquered his Nemesis, HMRC. <<
Spot-on Ali - as always!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 22:18:08
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Thanks Ali,I will contact my MP again,to explain what has happened and to ask him to forward my letters.This seems the only way to stop HMRC ignoring me.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 20:02:13
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sent the following letter to HMRC and my MP on
19 August 2008
To whom it may concern,
I consider the overpayment in question was made purely because of initial errors made by HMRC .
1) Sending me a claim form for 2001/2002,which clearly should have been 2002/2003 as I was applying in March 2004.
2)When I phoned to query this,I was informed to put NIL in the boxes.This I can't prove as phone records are not available for this call.However according to http:// www.hmrc.gov.uk/taxcredit/minutes070307.htm , tax claimants must be given "the benefit of the doubt" that their calls were made.
3) The "overpayment" in question was awarded on 17 June 2004 as a one off payment for the full period.A award notice was sent out on 18 June 2004,which incidentally was a Friday,so I wouldn't have of received it until 5 days later.So even if I had dealt with it straight away,there would be sometime before I would off been notified of the overpayment.So as the payment was made before the award notice was received by me,it's irrelevant how long I took to return it.
As this was my first claim, and reliable calculations are not available to the public, I had absolutely no reference as to how much to expect.
I would like to point out HMRC have broken their own code of practice 26 by starting recovery proceedings while I am still in dispute.
I have forwarded a copy of this letter to my MP but it may be a while before he can deal with it,as he is on parliament recess.
If my overpayment is not" written off now" I shall continue to take this matter further.
Yours faithfully
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 18:30:27
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Final chapter coming soon.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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ENIGMA
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
41 Posts |
Posted - 29/09/2008 : 21:28:24
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I received a couple of letters through the post the other day,one from HMRC which I opened with some trepidation,what a surprise!!There was a cheque for 100 pound.With disbelief and confusion I quickly opened the other letter from my MP which had an enclosed letter from HMRC.This letter stated that my overpayment for 786.49 has been written off.I quote;"This is because we did not meet all our responsibilities as set out in our code of practice 26."It goes on to say"In recognition of the worry and distress our actions have caused,I am sending a payment of 90 pound plus a further 10 pound for direct costs he has incurred.
The reason my overpayment was written off is so vague,I can only guess,they just got tired of dealing with me.
I will now write a bit under the "Success section" just to put the finishing touches on this story.
Practically anything can be achieved in this world,if you have the time and determination. |
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Sarah
Rank; Captain Gordon
247 Posts |
Posted - 30/09/2008 : 08:21:09
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HI Enigma,
Well done and I don't want to take away from your success by being all doom and gloom but do keep the letter from your MP safe. I had a small overpayment of about £20 written off via a letter to my MP, but HMRC came back to me to try and get the money. It's now sorted (well that overpayment - I had 5 I think in total)but only because I was able to produce the letter to my MP.
Hang on to it, keep it safe - it may be needed later! |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 30/09/2008 : 18:22:02
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Well done, ENIGMA! I knew that, if you persisted,justice would prevail in the end. However, as Sarah advises, do hang on to your letter, and make copies of it to put away in safe places, because occasionally HMRC has been known to deny all knowledge of its past decisions and revert back to bullying form. I know of one person who was told they were debt free only to have the whole sorry story start up again. Not wishing to worry anyone, as there are ways of dealing with this - but forewarned is forearmed!
Morpheus: They are the gatekeepers, they are guarding all the doors and holding all the keys.
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working tax credit ,overpayment imfomation please
