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LCB
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
16 Posts |
 Posted - 11/09/2007 : 14:26:59
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As per the title really, the whole overpayments battle is really getting me down, now. The latest;
We have received a notice to pay our overpayment by 29th September, which threatens court if we don't comply.
We have been waiting since the end of February for our records requested under the data protection act, but finally received our phone call transcripts this week. However, the CDs are unreadable.
We made a complaint to the information commissioner about the lack of response to our SARN request. They replied stating that they had complied with our request in April - a complete lie. We've written to the information comissioner again about this but don't hold out much hope.
I wrote to my MP again with all of the above. He wrote back today and his response has really annoyed me. He couldn't care less.
Meanwhile, I have a friend who had her payments stop last month because HMRC didn't receive her end of year renewal form (which is what caused our overpayment) and anulled her award. She called them, and they have reinstated her award. If they could do it for her, why could they not do it for us?
The last point is something I'd really appreciate some help with. I would like to know under what circumstances awards are reinstated/anulled when the renewal form has not been received? My friend was informed that awards can be reinstated if the claimant contacts them within 30 days (and they appear to have done so for her). I have also spoken unofficially to someone who works for the tax credits office and she said that reinstating/anulling cases such as mine is discretionary. Does anyone know if any such criteria exist?
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 14:31:06
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LCB, shall I take this to Tracy Gale? Everything I see seems urgent now. There is no end to the human misery. The common pattern is: they demand money from us instantly, with menaces. We try to get the payments we need off them, or some explanations, or cessation of court action, and we hear nothing for an eternity and beyond. Do you all think it's time to flood the top people with out complaints and concerns, directly, till we get some joy, all of us?
Morpheus: The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
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LCB
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
16 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 14:49:50
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I don't know, Ali, I don't know what to do to be honest. I've had to go back to work this month and send my children to a nursery because we feel very pressured, financially. I've been trying to fight it as a point of principle, but when every letter through the door (or even the long ominous silences) makes us miserable, part of me just wants to find the money somehow and pay them off. I have called debt recovery and they have put a note on the system to say we are still appealing, to give us more time.
Browsing the forum, I've just noticed that you said to someone else that recovery of overpayments is thought to be illegal when done years after the overpayment occurred. Is that true? Our overpayment occurred in two instances, during April 2004 to April 200 (error), and during April 2005 to September 2005 (annulment). HMRC sought to recover both overpayments in February 2007. Might this apply to us? 9grasping at straws  )
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 15:12:47
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Just quickly (need to work), I'd say this could cover you. I'm trying to find out what people in that situation do - will post any reply I get asap. More later...
Morpheus: The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
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LCB
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
16 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 20:45:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W
Just quickly (need to work), I'd say this could cover you. I'm trying to find out what people in that situation do - will post any reply I get asap. More later...
Morpheus: The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Thank you so much 
Just come online to write some more complaints, Alan-style, so I must be feeling better.  |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 21:29:21
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quote:
Originally posted by LCB
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W
Just quickly (need to work), I'd say this could cover you. I'm trying to find out what people in that situation do - will post any reply I get asap. More later...
Morpheus: The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
Thank you so much
Just come online to write some more complaints, Alan-style, so I must be feeling better.
Now you're getting the hang of it!! 
"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Larn-Yersel-Geordie-Scott-Dobson/dp/0946928010 |
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Robert
Da Purple one
United Kingdom
827 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2007 : 22:33:34
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Hi.. LCB dont let them grind you down,, complain.. while you are in appeal, no recovery of money should be sought..that is in the HMRC code of practice.. although at the monment, they seem to be making their own rules up.. yet again..
seems time for more complaints.. and if they have not answered your complaints, complain again..keep complaining and fighting..
The truth is out there.. GO get it..
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 12/09/2007 : 07:27:41
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Hi LCB, Alan and Robert are right - HMRC are so mighty they can break their own rules and their recovery section is completely separate to other parts of its chaotic operations and it seems there is a huge failure in communication between different parts of HMRC, let alone between HMRC and the public. The TCO must be made to stop the recovery process and to stop harrassing you - it is in breach of their own stated policy and probably illegal. They are breaking the rules trying to recover money before they have even explained to you properly what they did wrong and given you the opportunity to dispute this. They are nothing short of bullies. Anywhere else this behaviour would be monitored, sanctioned and controlled, but as Robert says, there is no accountability and anything goes. It now seems that they are acting illegally in trying to recover an overpayment arising from years ago (2004 and 2005). I have asked the Shadow Chancellor's PA, Madeleine, for advice as to how we deal with this (in goes in waves - David Laws from the Lib Dems was the main champion for tax credit casualties back in the BLiar days; Danny Alexander has a tough act to follow and is having to catch up, I think, because David was outstanding. Now it seems the Conservatives are chaffing at the bit to prove themselves and so far it's my own view that George Osborne is coming up as 'the new David Laws'. Sadly New Labour are taking the shining example of Dawn Primarolo, ex-Paymaster General, and keeping a resounding silence, clutching to the straw that we won't notice that two million of us annually are being overpaid through sheer incompetency of those in charge and subsequently treated like cretins or criminals.)
We are not going to take this lying down, of course. There are one helluva lot of us should we choose to kick up a fuss. Have a look at today's Daily Mirror, as we now have a national newspaper prepared to flag up our struggle - and a Labour-friendly paper at that. They are inviting more comments and letters from readers:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/money/city/2007/09/12/tax-war-89520-19777065/
TAX WAR Mothers united in battle against credits chaos 12/09/2007 ...
...Visit their website at www.taxcreditoverpayment.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk
Have you a problem with your tax credits? Email money@mirror.co.uk or write to Tax Credit Troubles, Daily Mirror, One Canada Square, London E14 5AP.
HMRC have paid lip-service only to the Tax Credit Casualties. I suspect that the reason why they haven't delivered on their promise, when we met them - on JUNE 12th for heaven's sake - to write a report for the then Paymaster Dawn Primarostrich - sorry, 'Primarolo' - and to send us their minutes is that they haven't taken any decent record of the meeting and are just fobbing us off.
We now have a chance to contact the Mirror with our stories. I am quite sure that if they get a decent enough public response they will back our campaign. It'd be rather embarrassing for those Labour MPs who are apathetic about helping us to see, in print, this evidence that we are fighting back - in a paper which tends to back them rather more than Opposition parties. I suggest we copy the article and send it to our New Labour MPs, just in case they don't read the tabloids. Between us, we can keep this going, whether it's with horror stories, or anything else to capture the public interest. The beuty of this is, we're now no longer separated into different cohorts of claimants - those who have been bludgeoned into coughing up, and those still fighting, because the illegal recovery issue now means that many of those who have been pressurised and bullied into repaying money they never should have had to pay in the first place are now due their money back! So instead of being left out in the cold and feeling that helping us won't help them, the reverse is true - we are all in this together! Potentially six million people and their families and friends! Ignore that, Mr Brown!
We will get the amnesty we so deserve. Believe it, and we will succeed.
So LCB and everyone else, don't be ground down - just get recovery stopped, a dispute underway and allow yourself a breather to enjoy your life again and tell those in charge exactly what you think of how you've been treated. I certainly will.
Morpheus: The Matrix is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
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LCB
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
16 Posts |
Posted - 13/09/2007 : 14:29:19
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I've reviewed all of the paperwork sent today, confusing and repetitive as it is. It would seem that they have recovered an overpayment from us every year so far, with amounts ranging from £40 to £900+. We knew about the largest one beause we noticed our payments reduce, but not the others. Would have been nice of them to tell us at the time. Also, we have four children at one point - our eldest child is entered twice, once as herself and once using my birthdate. It didn't affect the award but still, tut tut.
Have sent off a re-request for the CD's, too; the paperwork s pretty insignificant on it's own so without the calls I can't do much else about the re-appeal yet.
One more thing. On one of the screen captures is a page called 'AMBS renewals'. There are the applicant names shown, and below that a box called 'Key Dates' with 'Issue Date', '1SD' and '2SD'. What are these dates? Does anyone know?
One question. On one of the last pages, there is a screen capture |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 14/09/2007 : 19:16:01
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Hi
These Issue Dates 1sd and 2sd, mean when you responded to your annual review pack. 1sd is 31st August and 2sd is 30 days later. If the computer has your income details for that year by the 1sd date then your claim will run onto the following year. If you forget to give this information and call up on say the 2nd Sept with it, then they will extended the cut off date by a further 30 days allowing you time to get the information in. After the 30 days are up the claim finalizes and no more information can no longer be entered on to it.
Hope that helps
Splashin |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
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LCB
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
16 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2008 : 16:07:10
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Hello again,
We had no response to the complaint we made about the length of time it was taking to supply our telephone calls, surprise surprise. Today we've had another letter asking for full repayment by mid-march or courtproceedings will commence.
It is now almost a full year since our original SARN request, and five months since we wrote to them to tell them that the CD's supplied were unreadable and asking for transcripts or working replacements. They haven't supplied these.
So much for a right to appeal.
This has been hanging over our heads now for a year and we're so worn down by it all. |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 16/02/2008 : 20:10:41
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quote:
Originally posted by LCB
Hello again,
We had no response to the complaint we made about the length of time it was taking to supply our telephone calls, surprise surprise. Today we've had another letter asking for full repayment by mid-march or courtproceedings will commence.
It is now almost a full year since our original SARN request, and five months since we wrote to them to tell them that the CD's supplied were unreadable and asking for transcripts or working replacements. They haven't supplied these.
So much for a right to appeal.
This has been hanging over our heads now for a year and we're so worn down by it all.
I'm sorry it's such a demoralising and long-winded process, but if you stick with your dispute, there's every chance you can win. The alternative is giving in to state bullies, and inadvertently propping up the process, since the more who are forced to repay, the more the cost/benefits to HMRC of hounding innocent people tip towards recovery and away from write-off. Chunks of your overpayment will probably disappear if you continue fighting, as HMRC are forced to look into their own practices and discover that they are at fault.
It's really important you get any court action stopped, as they should not be threatening you with this before they have even sent you your SARN papers and calls! What defence can you possibly make with half your information and evidence missing?! You will have more clout if you involve your MP. Or you could take it to your local newspaper, which will be especially powerful if you cite our campaign Website and name, so that others can come forward with similar problems.
It sounds to me as though you're fed up and need some progress and some extra support. We will help here as much as we can. You could also go to your local CAB (watch the stampede, as they do a roaring trade in tax credit problems, still! Whatever you do, don't let them beat you. It is not your fault the system is over-complex, innaccurate and run by people who do not know what they are doing!
Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is…the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
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Sarah
Rank; Captain Gordon
247 Posts |
Posted - 19/02/2008 : 12:26:13
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| LCB keep hanging in there, it took me 14 months to get my SARN fullfilled. During that time I also continued to receive threats and demands to repay the money, but just keep telling them that you are waiting on them and complain every time you get a demand. Also send copies to your MP asking him to look into every demand you get to repay when they are not allowed to ask. Don't let their bullying tactics force you into repaying. hang on! |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 25/02/2008 : 23:07:23
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LCB
I would make a brand new FRESH sarn request. It may cost you £10, at the most but you are well within your rights to request as many SAR's as you like.
I wonder if the 2nd information corresponds with the first batch??? Would be interesting to see. I mean for people who put in any SARN to HMRC before 2006, would see differences in the 1st batch to the 2nd batch if they requested again now.
LCB, I would not base any dispute for an overpayment on the basis of any telephone call conversation's and these only. HMRC and The Adjudicator's Office just waft them off like a bad smell with a slight mention of their wrong doing in there reply to your dispute. I have seen it time and time again. What you need to do is really concentrate on the paper side to your claim. I f you truly believe that you never claimed incorrectly in anyway and you were fully compliant throughout, then this is were you will need to begin your dispute. You need to show how many Correct things you did and how many Incorrect things that HMRC did, and build from there.
   
Splashin |
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It's all getting me down now.
