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buddyp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
 Posted - 18/08/2008 : 14:46:50
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Hi I am new to this site and I was wondering what information I need to have when I inform the TCO that my partner will be moving in with me and my 2 children. Will I need to stop the award that I am on now and do we have to apply to do a separate claim, it hardly seems worth it as he is on a good income...... personally I'd rather not bother but would I be made to? Please can anyone help many thanks
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2786 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 17:44:21
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Rest assured whatever you do HMRC Tax Credit Office will mess it up for you!!
Personally, I don't know what to advise you on this one, but have no doubt that some of our other members will and they'll be along soon to advise you.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon for Prime Minister!!" |
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TCC Webmaster
Da Purple one
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
129 Posts |
Posted - 18/08/2008 : 21:50:16
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Hiya Buddyp,
When your new partner moves in, you should notify the Tax Credit Office straight away. My understanding is that your current award will be terminated, and a new, joint award will be started - if you still qualify.
When your single award is terminated, any overpayment (existing or new) from that award will become due straight away.
One of the things to watch for is when HMRC post out the Annual Returns next April/May. You'll still have to complete the return for your single claim - or everything from it will become an overpayment.
Keep full records of every call you make to the TCO - time, date, duration, and who you spoke to - along with a brief description of the conversation. If you write to them, send any letter by recorded delivery and keep a copy yourself.
Hopefully, others will be along to verify and add to what I've written here (I'm just a simple webmaster  )
Best of luck!
The original 'point & click' interface was a Smith & Wesson !! |
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buddyp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2008 : 10:58:49
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| Hi thanks for your replys, does anyone know if we have to give his details as we are only eligable for a few pounds and reall don't want to bother? Can I just end my claim by saying he is moving in or will i have to give them all the info? |
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Sarah
Rank; Captain Gordon
247 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2008 : 12:30:42
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Hi Buddyp
Our Webmaster is quite right about ending the single claim as at the date your partner moves in. Even if you know what day your partner will move in HMRC will not take any information until he has actually moved in. One thing to be aware of if you receive tax credits in your wages is HMRC have a policy of giving employers a minimum of 54 days to process changes; this means even though you provide all the relevant information you could still receive payments you are not entitled to for this length of time (I got an overpayment in this way for a single claim that lasted only 1 day of the financial year).
Not sure on where you stand for not submitting a new claim, but you could try telling HMRC that you don't wish to claim.
Also noteworthy is that an overpayment made to you on a single claim can not be clawed back from a joint claim with your new partner.
Good luck.
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missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2008 : 13:23:58
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You need to tell HMRC immediately when he moves in so as to avoid any overpayment.
You should then receive a new single award notice that only runs from 6th April 2008 to date he moved in. If you do not receive this within 30 days of making the call, make sure you contact HMRC again.
You do not have to make a new claim if you do not want to. All that will happen is that you will be sent a new application form. It is therefore up to you if you want to fill it in. Unless your household income is going to be more than £50,000 you will still be entitled to at least 545 per year. Even if your income is higher than that you still may get 545 or even more depending on number of children and childcare costs.
When you end a joint claim, the new single claim is taken immediately over the phone. But that does not happen when it is a single claim going to a joint claim.
As stated above, if you have any overpayments on your single claim they will be become due immediately.
The point regarding payment via employer doesn't apply and hasn't since 2006 when payments via employer were phased out.
MF2 |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 19/08/2008 : 13:44:40
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Hi Buddyp. I'm no expert on the differences between sole and joint claims, and only know that whilst Sarah's right that 'an overpayment made to you on a single claim can not be clawed back from a joint claim with your new partner', this isn't the same as saying that there will be no overpayment. Unfortunately, something I've never fathomed the reason for, it seems possible to receive an overpayment demand whether you notify a new partner, advise of a break-up, or anything else happens in your life. Seems whatever the issue or question is - the answer is always an overpayment!
Others - like Miss Froy 2 - or RobinW perhaps (a very welcome recent contributor to this forum) will hopefully be along soon to give more specific advice - and perhaps less jaundiced than mine (I have a dim view of HMRC's fitness for task with tax credits based on the catalogue of errors they have inflicted on me and mine, but others may know a safe route through tax credits). Anyway, all I would add is: 1) Please be aware that claims don't just end because you don't choose to renew. Once in the system it is like escaping Hesbollah or the Moonies, and you can only ever properly escape with papal dispensation or by - as I did - writing to Jane Kennedy. "Not a lot of people know that." 2) In all respects, you must be honest with the Tax Credit Office and HMRC. Here, we will fight unreservedly for people who have been honest and compliant, and did all that they believed or were told they had to, but we don't defend those who are 'economical with the truth'. (We just advise them to get jobs in Browns Tax Credit Loving Treasury.) So you will need to tell the TCO when your partner is going to be moving in, and I believe they will want to know his personal details and salary. Best thing is to just give them this, and with any luck, nothing spectacular will go wrong, there will be no overpayment, and you can just signal your intention to quietly leave the system whilst you can.
You may find, however, that the ending of your sole claim triggers a recalculation, and don't be surprised if you get landed with an overpayment. I declared my partner in December 2005 (different situation - we'd been together a while but not recognised as partners because the Civil Partnership Act 2004 had not taken effect until that December). My Christmas present that year was a tax credit bill for £5880 from my miscalculated sole award, which had apparently only just come to light! Eventually common sense prevailed and it was finally written off in full (having climbed to nearly £6500 with problems on the joint award) a few weeks ago, but still a load of hassle.
Excuse the digression, but my moral is this: yoy must tell them the truth at all times. Okay, it might at some stage trigger an overpayment, but if unjust, that can and should be challenged. You can exit the system, but to do so, you have to clearly signal that you want to, otherwise you will still be in the 'system' even if there is no award currently in pay, and still obliged to notify changes in circumstances and keep returning Annual declarations/renewal packs! All a bit crazy, isn't it?
Hope I haven't confused you. And remember, you can always ring the TCO Helpline for advice. It may not always be correct, but if you carefully note what you are told, when and by whom, and proceed to get into difficulties because their advice was bad, you do at least have some comeback.
Sometimes it's helpful to ring the Helpline a few times and look for a clear line of advice. If enough of their workers trot it out, there's a fair chance that it's going to be correct and that if you follow it, you will be safe. Or certainly ought to be.
The innocent, honest and genuinely misled will all, eventually, get justice (especially now WE are here), but I cannot say the same for people who avoid doing what they know they have to. And I mean that in the nicest possible way - I am not implying you wouldn't be up-front to HMRC, but just encouraging you to be bold, do the right thing, protect yourself, and be careful! We are working hard to make sure honesty pays! (Sometimes it hasn't, but that's another story.)
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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buddyp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2008 : 08:31:57
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Thanks for all your replys, I'm going to write to them rather than ring and send it recorded delivery so I know its got to them, any money i receive after i have posted the letter i will put away for overpayment. Do any of you advise to ring or write which would you think was better?
many thanks
buddyp |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2786 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2008 : 12:28:44
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>>Do any of you advise to ring or write which would you think was better? <<
I've always said that a telephone conversation isn't worth the paper that it's written on.
Therefore, whenever you telephone HMRC - or indeed any other department of this Nu Labour Government - make notes of what was said during the conversation, make sure that the other party reads back to you a summary of what was said/agreed and make sure you write down the name of the other party together with the date & time of the call.
THEN write to them outlining what was said/agreed - Something along the lines of; "Further to the telephone conversation of - date - at - time - between myself and you representative - name of other party - I now write to confirm what was said/agreed.
Unless I hear to the contrary from you within the next 28 days I will assume that I have correctly fulfilled my obligations to you.")and send it by Recorded Delivery and keep a copy for yourself.
Yes I know it's a right bloody clart, but I feel it needs to be done in order to help protect yourself from becoming a victim of the breathtaking incompetence that we know exists within HMRC.
(Think Belt AND Braces!!)
Also, keep a note of your costs - phone calls, postage & stationery, travelling expenses, time etc. You may not need or be able to reclaim these costs now, but it will be a good habit to get into for when your claim goes wrong & you end-up in dispute with them and you will be able to do so!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon for Prime Minister!!" |
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buddyp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 21/08/2008 : 15:15:55
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| He is adamant he is not gong to claim his brother had so much hassle its just not worth it, just wondering tho if we have to claim by law, he has never been on their system as he's never had to claim them before as he's got no children. Surely if my single claim has ended that should be it because I can't claim a joint claim on my own and I can't force him to he said he'd rather do overtime to make up the 545 that we would get. Cant say I blame him really! |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2008 : 06:51:38
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Okay, how about this idea? Hopefully Miss Froy 2, Robin W or someone else similiarly knowledgeable will comment on it...
You could perhaps write to the Tax Credit Office saying that your partner intends to move in on such and such a date, but his brother's experiences of the system have been so appalling that he is adamant he is not going near Tax Credits, so he cannot thereforeby a willing party on any joint claim. You could then say that you realise that from the date he intends to move in, you cannot claim Tax Credits as a single claimant, so you would like to end your single claim permanently from that point on. When I voluntarily withdrew, or as I prefer to think of it, escaped from the Tax Credit 'system', I had to write to HMRC but also signal my wish to escape to Jane Kennedy, as at the time no-one had done it (we might have thought we had, but we were all sitting on the system with nothing or virtually nothing in pay, still with an obligation to tell HMRC every 1.5% increase in pay, etc.), and Jane Kennedy was apparently then 'working on the ability to exit the system'. Well, it seems that it can now be done! In Tax Credits' usual, 'flexible' way, the safest time to lerave is at the end of a financial year before the new one starts, but s@d that! You ought to be able to safely leave at any time. What you want to avoid is having all your single award for the year recalculated as an overpayment. I don't want to frighten you, but the 'system' is not exactly user-friendly in that respect.
You may find you will have to supply details of what you actually did earn for the year at the end of the year, and very scarily, you will probably be obliged to do this - as I was - in a.... RENEWAL pack!!! Refusing to fill a RENEWAL pack in when you want to escape isn't an option, as you will be probably landed with an overpayment as you'll be treated as not responding and therefore retrospectively not elligible for what you have already had (even if you were and are). So what I did - not saying it will definately work as they could still spring surprises on me - is write all over the RENEWAL form that no way never no more did I want to renew my Tax Credit claim and that it would be infinitely safer to stick my head into a hungry lion's mouth. You could then write an accompanying letter explaining that the RENEWAL pack is an escape pack for you rather than a renewwal one, and copy that to the Tax Credit Casualties (ie. put 'cc' and the names you are copying it to on the bottom so that HMRC know their actions and inactions will be known about) and to your MP. Send it recorded delivery so you can guarantee it gets there and isn't 'lost', and write a letter to your MP insisting (s)he follows this up with the Tax Credit Office and makes sure you are safely deleted from their 'system'.
It's a pallaver, I know, but in theory ought to work. Now it's quite possible that withdrawing from the 'system' will trigger recalculation of your awards since the year dot, as our money-grubbing 'friends' at the Treasury are not going to let some grubby little proletarian escape their Orwellian clutches as easily as that if there's any chance they can persecute them for £27.50 and claw a little bit more money back towards the billions of all of our money (because we are valuable citizens and taxpayers too - a fact which seems to have escaped a lot of people's notice) that they have paid away in error. So what if it costs them £275 or £2750 or even £27,500 to get that £27.50 back - they are on a government-endorsed mission!
So you may end up with an overpayment, but at least you have found us here and will be well tooled-up and supported to challenge it if you feel it unjust. Lots could happen - you could be able to exit without any problem, with all your awards to date correct (did I just see a snounted pink animal with trotters fly past?). You could get a small overpayment that someone humane in HMRC decides to let go (I think I see a flock!) Or you could end up locked in dispute for something larger. But see this through and then you will have the relief of finally having to have nothing more to do with the Tax Credit 'system' ever, and that is a tremendous feeling of relief, believe me!
If you get an overpayment, you could certainly point out to HMRC that, having forgone any future claims with your partner, it would make economic and practical sense to write off the alleged 'debt' and consider it amply recovered by the future amounts you and your partner could have had, but are not claiming because of the fallibility of the 'system'.
Personally, I totally understand where your partner is coming from. He has seen his brother have 'so much hassle' that he has been completely put off claiming tax credits. You could point this out to your MP and say that you have joined the Tax Credit Casualties because you are so worried about making and future claim, and the impact it can have on your old claim. Ask her or him to publicise us to other affected claimants and put a link on her or his website to ours. Ask them to ask questions in the house, push for a fairer system, and advocate an Amnesty for all non-fraudulent tax credit overpaymenmts, like Jon Cruddas has done. And point out that you deserve a safe exit and no overpayment as £5million in tax credits goes unclaimed every year! Hopefully that will do the trick! Ali.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 22/08/2008 : 07:19:29
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I found a template letter on another thread, and have altered it a bit. See what you think, Buddyp. If you feel a little nervous - as I did - about the future need to complete a 'renewal' pack in order to do the opposite - escape the system - a letter along these lines might, I hope, help:
(Address)
(Daytime Telephone Number)
(Date)
To; Tax Credit Office
(Use the from address on annual review / renewal pack)
Your Ref: (Your National Insurance Number)
Dear Sir or Madam,
I have recently received a Renewal Pack / Annual Review for ...(tax year). I believe you want me to complete this in order to leave the Tax Credit system. I am concerned that this is a 'renewal' pack, because I have no intention of renewing any claim for Tax Credits for this period.
Section 3 (1) of the Tax Credit Act 2002 clearly states; “Entitlement to a Tax Credit for the whole or part of a tax year is dependent on the making of a claim for it”, and in this letter I am informing you that I am not making any further Tax Credit claim. Should you mistakenly treat the 'renewal' form as a claim for Tax Credits, you will be in breach of this legislation and I will not accept responsibility for any overpayment arsing as a result of your negligence.
It would not have been my choice to complete a 'renewal' form in order to safely exit the Tax Credit system, and I am only complying as there seems no alternative. I am aware that failure to return a 'renewal' form when you are already in the system is a virtually guaranteed way to have previous payments treated as overpayments, so I am left with little choice other than to use an inappropriate form.
Please note that by completing this 'renewal' form I am not making any claim for tax credits and so there is no reason for me to inform you of my personal circumstances from this date forward.
Any further payments I receive I will reasonably assume to be balancing payments from previous awards. Should you later attempt to recover them as overpayments, I will produce copies of this letter to prove my statement and reasonable belief of entitlement to them.
And any further award paperwork you send for tax year ....., and indeed other years for which I have not claimed, will be ignored as inappropriate and maladministration.
I would welcome confirmation that I have safely left this error-prone and adversarial system and will no longer be troubled by it.
Yours Sincerely
(Your Signature)
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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sue_1
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2008 : 13:41:59
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| Hi buddyp ..How did things go with the tax credits ..Did you get it all sorted out ?? |
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buddyp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - 15/09/2008 : 19:07:49
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quote:
Originally posted by sue_1
Hi buddyp ..How did things go with the tax credits ..Did you get it all sorted out ??
Hi well I sent them a letter by recorded delivery on 20/08/08 and they were still p[aying into my account as of last week..... I havent spent it tho as I know they will be asking for it back! I hadn't heard anything back off them so I rang them last Tuesday and stated that I was now living with my partner and why hadnt they ended my claim, she said that they had got the letter on the 1st sept. She took a few details about my partners and my earnings and sent a claim pack out which I received this morning. I AM NOT GOING TO CLAIM THOUGH ITS NOT WORTH THE HASSLE FOR £11 per week so I have shoved it in the drawer. My partner has never claimed tax credit before and is adamant that he isnt going to so I guess its not a problem because I cant claim them for him so we should be ok in not sending the form back. I know I will have to fill a form in at the end of the tax year that will finalise my award am I right in saying that???? |
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samthe
Rank; Private Primate
187 Posts |
Posted - 16/09/2008 : 19:19:09
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1. There is no problem at all if you don't submit a new claim.
2. Yes - you will get an annual declaration form after April 2009, & must complete & return it. |
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moving my partner in with me.
