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ellie2008
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
6 Posts |
 Posted - 14/08/2008 : 14:25:46
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Sorry this is long...We got married in March and didn't live together beforehand. Prior to this I was a single working parent, claiming tax credits without problems for years. A week or so after getting back from honeymoon (cheap short uk one by the way!!) I phoned tax credits helpline to notify them of new situation (ie well within the 30 days), and gave them our annual incomes. The woman did a calculation and said that we should still have some entitlement (he works full time, I work part time, both in supporting vulnerable people so low relatively paid). She said that our old award would probably now stop and they'd let us know how much the new one would be.
Expected payments to just stop, but they just reduced by a couple of pounds and carried on. I looked this up, and found that TC website said it could take up to 30 days for changes to be implemented, so I put it down to that. They wrote to acknowledge change in circs and started calling me by my married name. Payments carried on, and as it was nearly end of tax year I thought maybe they'd just recalculate when new claim went in.
Didn't worry too much as thought well, any overpayment could just be taken out of new year's claim so worst that could happen was wouldnt get tax credits for a while after new claim. They did enclose a form to fill in but like an idiot, I didnt bother as we'd given figures over the phone, I hate forms, and I knew the new year claim form was coming up anyway. Filled in and returned new claim form last month.
As wedding was hurried due to parental terminal illness, and I had been left with financial problems after the sudden death of my (divorced) ex-husband, the children's father, 18 months ago, we have spent the last few months in a very difficult financial situation which we have been struggling to pay off and have just starting remortgaging process to get on top of this.
However today have received new notice after submitting new year claim form, saying we are not entitled to ANY tax credits this coming year and have a £2,500 overpayment which they will be contacting us about.
A (very nice) chap from the TC had phoned a couple of days ago to check our details and told me that they had had me down as a single claimant. I told him about the previous phone conversation in which I'd notified the change of circs, and pointed out that they'd changed my name at that point, and explained that they'd said they'd sort the payments out but appeared not to have done, and my assumption that this must be how they deal with it and that it'd all even out over this year. He checked the file and admitted the contact was there as I'd said, and that someone in their office seemed to have made a mistake, but didn't say anything further - so this notification has come as a bit of a shock.
I accept that I should pay most of it back in manageable installments as I did obviously realise I might have to, although had assumed this would be by deduction from new year tax credits, and should have checked, and at the time I admit that things were so financially difficult the money was a lifesaver, so paying it back is I guess only fair - but wonder if I should expect that they should take some responsibility as well as I did inform them and they did tell me it was being sorted out.
If they are allowed to demand 2.5k to be repaid straight away or over 12 monthly installments it's going to be impossible, unless I guess we apply for a delay and take it out of the remortgage when it comes through, and be left with some of the debt we'd planned to consolidate in this way. I've just taken on a second job but this wouldn't cover the extra 200-plus quid a month to repay in 1 year, and the idea of taking the 2nd job was that we could afford to do normal-people-things with the kids.
I guess a lot of people's situation is a lot worse than ours, and feel pathetic complaining, and guess reading through it's basically my own stupid fault. But we have been so hard up over the last few months trying to sort out our finances that we've sometimes been reduced to borrowing toilet rolls from friends and I've skipped meals to feed the kids properly, which is not a great way to start married life or help kids still grieving for their father, so to be facing more debt just when we think we're on the way to sorting things out is a bit depressing. I'm also terrified of the thought of possible court proceedings.
Any input (apart from to tell me I've been a bit stupid, which I realise), much appreciated, especially in terms of what leeway we might have because they didn't act on the info given them...
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Sarah
Rank; Captain Gordon
247 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 15:22:09
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Hi Ellie,
The only way you have been stupid is the same way wwe all have here - by trusting the government and HMRC!
Firstly we need to establish the exact cause of your overpayment - just because HMRC have said it's because of your marriage doesn't mean it is (on my case they said it was because I had got married but in actual fact it related to an error they had made the year before). So the first thing you need to do is go to our main website at www.taxcc.org and look under 'how to dispute'. You need to tell HMRC that you are disputing recovery of the overpayment (there is a standard letter you can use) and complete a Statutory Access Request Notice (SARN). This means that HMRC have to send all your paper work and award details etc to you that they hold; you can use this to find the error as well as details of the phonecall you made saying you were married. If you have told them you married and they didn't act on it, the error is theirs and you can fight recovery. And we are here to help you do that so you're not alone.
Whilst you are disputing and waiting for your SARN information HMRC can pursue for the money - if they try we can help you stop them.
Good luck and keep in touch. |
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ellie2008
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
6 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 17:52:45
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Aw thanks Sarah, that's really encouraging. I will go through the dispute process as soon as I get the written statement from them of what they are going to demand, and it's interesting that they made an error in your case. Definitely worth checking as the HMRC woman's calculations said we were entitled to something, whereas the letter now says not.
Having said I've never had problems before, I did actually have an overpayment about 4 years back, of about 1,000, due to an increase in income that I didn't realise I'd had, as I worked irregular hours as a relief worker at that time - but as we were then receiving about £500 a month they just reduced our payments by about £100 a month until it was paid off, and as our finances were much healthier then, this wasn't too much of a problem and I just accepted it philosophically (maybe we didn't really owe it at all, I wonder now - who knows). So I guess I didn't really take the issue as seriously this time as it looks like I should have, assuming if they had made a cock up it would be sorted out by simple deductions from tax credits and that if that meant we didn't get anything from them this year, at least we wouldn't be any worse off...As I said, am an idiot clearly.
The thing is though, I'm not generally that much of an idiot - I do housing advice as part of my job - but don't know anything about benefits beyond basic housing benefit rules - it's more that tax credits are just so flippin confusing. I half thought, because they say they're based on your previous year's income, that the old level of payments might just be continuing this year, as they didn't seem to have changed much after our notifying them, and that maybe it would be next year when they got reduced as that would then be based on this year's income! Don't really quite get why this appears not to be the case, and as I say, I am not uneducated or - really - normally that much of an idiot, except in the not filling in forms unless I really have to in my personal, non-work life, and expecting things like this to sort themselves out...sigh. Pretty rubbish system really.
Am trying not to panic, and appreciate that we're lucky in that we have been able to get a remortgage so if it comes to it, we won't actually have to fight the bailiffs off with a stick (I hope).
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician
United Kingdom
619 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 17:58:32
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Hi
We are victims of HMRC errors here and people who are normally able to cope with filling in forms, understanding systems etc. Sarah has given good advice, which I hope you will follow and not agree to pay back one penny unless, or until, it is proved by HMRC that they can have grounds for expecting you to do so. It doesn't sound as though they have from what you have said.
Good luck
Auntie
"You can dress a pig in a suit but you can't stop it grunting" |
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ellie2008
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
6 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 18:07:46
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| Thanks Auntieh, I will! The reason I'm berating myself is just taht most other people on here seem to have made much more effort than I did to sort out their tax credits and I feel that, although it's the HMRC's mistake, I've contributed to the situation myself by not taking more responsiblity. Maybe they'll go halves with me...:0/ But paying not a penny sounds better, obviously... |
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician
United Kingdom
619 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 18:13:42
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No you haven't contributed I'm sure, I felt like that when mine came to light at first but I don't any more. I did check everything that was sent to us and there was no mention of our 2003/4 overpayment until 2006. My mistake was not keeping all of the correspondence when my husband and I separated but I have stopped beating myself up about it now.
Auntie
"You can dress a pig in a suit but you can't stop it grunting" |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2786 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 18:30:15
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Hi Ellie and welcome!!
I have just one question for you before I go any further and it's this; Are you prepared to copy & paste a letter and either post or e-mail it to your MP?
There are only two answers to this question; YES or NO.
Please post your reply here.
Many thanks
Alan.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon for Prime Minister!!" |
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ellie2008
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
6 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 19:15:51
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| Hi Alan, thanks! YES definitely, if you think I have a case. My MP is Ian Gibson and so far as I know he is quite a militant individual, though whether or not he is militant about the right sort of things to be any use with this, I'm less sure... |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2786 Posts |
Posted - 14/08/2008 : 20:27:31
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Great!!
Thanks for that Ellie.
It's nothing nasty - just a letter that one of our better educated and respected members wrote to her MP and I nicked it & sent it to mine too. I have the idea that if enough MPs get to hear about the reality of HMRC's practices they'll be sufficiently appalled to want to do something about it. Many hands make light work & all that!
Anyway, I'm sending you this letter to your e-mail address and you can just add your MP's name at the top and your name at the bottom of it & send it by whatever means you choose.
Many thanks.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon for Prime Minister!!" |
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ellie2008
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
6 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2008 : 00:10:50
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Just an update - the mentalists at HMRC have just paid me over £150 into my bank account, which is more than my old weekly payments, despite them also having just written last week to tell me we aren't entitled to anything and that we also owe them 2.5K. By my calculations using entitledto website, this new payment is about what we should get in a month now. But they've ALSO this week sent us another letter and form saying we haven't given them enough information for them to process a claim - this is despite the fact that in July we submitted our completed, very thoroughly and accurately filled in, new claim form.....
I'm thinking about writing back, enclosing the latest form but leaving it blank, pointing out that we have now given them all the info in two phone calls and one claim form, and that I therefore haven't filled in this latest form as the info hasn't changed. Any idea if this is a good or bad idea...?? |
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jess
Da Purple one
United Kingdom
51 Posts |
Posted - 20/08/2008 : 00:53:25
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Hi ellie
Others will be better qualified than I to give you advice but I would be tempted to fill in the form exactly the same as the previous one and return it, registered post, with a covering letter, repeating yet again the info that you have given them and making it clear that you have already given them this information on such date.
I would also telephone the helpline, give them the same info, ask them to confirm back to you what you have told them, and tell the helpline that you have returned the form with a letter. I know this all seems like alot of unnecessary hassle (which it is) but by doing this you are establishing a clear record that you have done everything they expect you to do and therefore can't be held liable for any further errors.
I would also ask very clearly in the telephone call why they have made this bank payment to you in view of the contradictory correspondence you have received. Get them to be very clear about their answer and keep a note of the time, date, advisors name and brief notes of the conversation.
Looking back at my own paperwork, it seems that there is at least a 2 - 3 week delay between giving them information and receiving follow up paperwork so the bank payment could well be a result of either your phone conversation with the "(very nice) chap from the TC" or even prior to that. Treat the payment with suspicion and try not to spend it if possible.
Have you submitted a dispute form yet? If not, do so as soon as possible to put any repayment demands on hold and then write to your MP giving him all the information you can and asking him to contact TCO in order to resolve the situation as the contradictory paperwork you are receiving is making it impossible for you to understand whether or not you have an entitlement and what your position is. Try to lay out the information you give to your MP in a logical chronological order so that he/she can immediately see the problems you are facing.
We would be very grateful if you could draw your MPs attention to the TaxCC website and forum, and if you could also download the posters (links from the main site homepage) and put them up at work, in local community centres, doctors surgeries, hairdressers, launderettes etc - anywhere you can think of.
Stick with it - it's unlikely to be resolved quickly but you should get it sorted out properly eventually. Keep us posted on your progress.
Good luck.
All Human Beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, not to attacks upon his honor and reputation. Everyone has the right to protection of the law against such interference or attacks
Articles 1 and 12 Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1948.
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2.5k overpayment, feel like an idiot, any advice?
