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ATCS
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector


28 Posts

Posted - 17/04/2010 :  22:36:47  Show Profile Send ATCS a Private Message
I have to reply by Friday 23rd April to the adjudicators office.

The TCO have said that in the tax year 2006/2007 they should not have included the first £300 of my income in there calculations. Would this have also been the case for 2007/2008

I wanted to know when this began and how long it went on for, because I remember on my last decloration that the onus was on me to deduct the first £300.

My overpayment occured in the year 2007/2008 although it related to 2006/2007. However in the last few days I've just received a new finalised award notice for 2006/2007 and the overpayment has now been moved to that year.

Can someone also comfirm for me that if an overpayment occures in one year and an adjustment is included in that same year, have you paid it back or the TCO?

Last question. When the TCO calculate an award do the have to show the exact amount you are entitled and then show ALL deductions or can they take off whats some of what owed first?

Hope you can understand what I mean.

Thanks in advance


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splashin
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Posted - 18/04/2010 :  12:43:55  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi ATCS

So you are at the Adjudicator stage in your dispute and need to reply to them by 23rd April, is this to respond to TCO review as to how your overpayment arose?
This £300 income deduction should only apply to what is known as 'Other Income'. For what reason have TCO said this deduction should have been taken off your income? You then say you can recall on a previous declaration, the onus was upon you to remove this £300. As far as I can recall the £300 deduction for 'Other Income' has been in place for every tax year since the start in 2003. And the onus has been on the claimant every year to deduct this amount not TCO.
An overpayment can occur, during the tax year or after you declare your income for the previous tax year. In your case, you say your overpayment occurred in 07/08. If this was prior to April 5th 2007, then it would have been attached to the tax year 06-07. If it was after the 6th April 2007, then it would be attached to the tax year 07-08. You will more than likely find, if you have been overpaid, then you will more than likely also be overpaid for some part of the following tax year also.
Paying back any overpayment. Awards can be recalculated during a tax year, should this then show an overpayment, the system will calculate what amount should be recovered based on what your entitled to. The recovery can last for 3 years. So if you where overpaid in 2007-2008 tax year, it could be 2012-2013 before you finally completely repay the amount overpaid, as long as you have an ongoing claim. Every situation is different and based on its on merit.
When TCO calculate an award. They see what household circumstances you are entitled too, for example, number of children, hours worked etc. Then they take your gross household income, deduct the tax years, 1st threshold(every one is different).
And the system then awards your claim. If you tell me what your circumstances are and what income you declared for the tax years in question I will explain your amount awarded. If you would like this, I need to know, single or joint claim, number of children, hours worked, childcare costs, any disability (claiming DLA) in the household and amount of income declared.
For me to help you get your head round this, I need you to answer a couple of questions please.
1. You say the overpayment occurred in 2007-2008. What month was this and how much did TCO say that you had been overpaid?
2. Had your household income increase, during 06/07 or 07/08?
3. Do you have a current ongoing award with tax credits or are TCO trying to recover money from this overpayment direct from you?


Splashin
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ATCS
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



28 Posts

Posted - 18/04/2010 :  20:13:33  Show Profile Send ATCS a Private Message
Hi Splashin
Your right I am currently responding to the TCOs reply to the adjudicator’s office. I have posted before but over 12 months ago.

Briefly, I sent in our declaration to finalise years 2006/2007. The computer zeroed our income. Hubby phoned to find out why we were getting so many giros and he told them my income. I get incapacity benefit and a small pension. The advisor only recorded my IB not my pension
Compliance became involved and when they realised that I had filled in the 2006/2007 declaration correctly they closed the case.
Compliance reissued the awards and missed off £300 off my pension. I phoned to get it corrected but it had already caused another overpayment. The TCOs have told the adjudicators office that my pension less the £300 is correct. They just forgot to tell me! They have apologised and paid us just over £100 although all the previous paperwork states the overpayment for this is £386
The overpayment for 2006/2007 was £2498.63 and for 2007/2008 was £548 both these amounts the TCO agreed that we did not have to repay as they did not follow their COP26.
BUT when the 2007/2008 was finalised they collected it back. I did get my MP involved but the TCO convinced him that they had done nothing wrong and in the end you may remember he suggested that I contact an accountant!
Right for your questions splashin
1 It is a joint claim with 2 school age children. Husband works fulltime and I get DLA highest rate for both bits. I also have IB and a pension The income declared for 2006/2007 was £17334
2 The overpayment occurred in Aug 08 and was for £2498 (for 2006/2007)
The second overpayment in Aug 08 was for £548 (for 2007/2008)
3 The declared income for 2007/2008 was £14978 it was from this year that I believe they took the money. As we only received one giro for £238
We do have a current claim but I think we have paid everything back now because they kept saying that there were no outstanding overpayments.
Splashin as the TCO have apologised for there “error” regarding the £300 am I right in thinking that they have done this on my behalf because I didn’t take the money off?
Also last week they sent me 3 new award notices. The first for 2006/2007 which clearly shows the overpayment and in that same award adjusts the overpayment in the calculations. Yet the overpayment did not take place till Aug 08. This is also the award that the TCO have adjusted my pension.
The second award for 2007/2008 shows the overpayment £548 and adjusts it in that year.
It also show that we received tax credits of £1509.88 WTC and £4241.94 CTC .This is the award I think is wrong
Sorry it so long. Hope it makes sense
Thanks




Edited by - ATCS on 22/04/2010 16:12:08
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 19/04/2010 :  08:27:42  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi ATCS
Thanks for your reply. I have just read through your original posting regarding this, so I understand what's happening now.

I see you have already got your SAR paperwork and you have gone through and pulled out some unusual codes, letters etc.
Letters after the income, E-estimated, A-actual, S-system. When a letter S appears this means the income being used to calculate the current years award, is based upon the previous years declared income.
SL11 - S17 incomplete
Inappropriate zeros removed from claim 1 emp inc event date 5.4.07 creation date 31.7.07.
TCO have cleared a worklist item on your claim, to process your declaration. It seems they have removed some zero's from income area from the note. This would be to end the 06-07 tax year.
Can you recall putting zero's in the income section's, which should have been left blank or did you complete your declaration over the telephone?

What to do now
I would like you to contact the Adjudicator office, via letter or email and request more time to respond to TCO's review. Ask for another 2 months. They will not refuse you extra time to reply, they just might tell you, you have another 30 days. But still ask for 2 months.
From what I gather. Even though you found out about the overpayment in July/Aug 2007, it is from the Tax Year 2006-2007.
The household note which shows an adjustment in 06-07 for £2498 is the correction made by TCO to correct your award. Let me explain better. Your 06-07 overpayment was £2498 when they first informed you about it. Which means your account would be £2498- (in debt). When TCO discovered their processing error and corrected it, your account for 06-07 should now balance i.e £0.00. But the system has to show that there has been an adjustment made on the system to correct your overpayment, hence the note.
Now this next bit really interests me.
From the income amounts you have given me for 06-07 & 07-08, based on your household circumstances. I believe these amounts (give or take £50) of Tax Credits, should have been awarded and paid to you.
06-07
Joint Income = £17334.00
Elements Due = £11230.00
Taper = £ 4482.18
Amount Awarded = £ 6747.82 (WTC=£2672.82 & CTC=£4075.00)

07-08
Joint Income = £14978.00
Elements Due = £12360.00
Taper = £ 3610.46
Amount Awarded = £ 8749.54 (WTC=£4514.54 & CTC=£4235.00)

Do these amounts tally up with what TCO have awarded, I bet they don't? If you only got £238.00 during the tax year 07-08 then you are owed a handsome sum of money. And yes you were correct to think TCO took the money anyway even after they told you they had corrected their mistake. The payments stopped for 07-08, because the system thought you had this overpayment and started to recover. When TCO made the correction for the 06-07 tax year, this should then have stopped the recovery of the overpayment, balanced your account and then recalculated your 07-08 award, and began re-paying you again, all the money owed to you for 07-08, which in my calculation should have been £8749.54, and I'm not often wrong with my calculations.
What year was your claim was investigated by compliance? Would it have be between 06-04-2006 - 05-04-2007?
Who corrected your claim remitting the overpayment, Compliance or TCO overpayment's team ?
Cant' WAIT for you to reply !!!!!!!!!!




Splashin
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ATCS
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



28 Posts

Posted - 19/04/2010 :  09:51:09  Show Profile Send ATCS a Private Message
Hi splashing
Firstly looking at my original declaration which was posted I put my pension down on part 2.2 under “income” then crossed it off and put it under “other income”
You are right the overpayment is from 2006/2007 but happened in Aug 2007 i.e. the 2007/2008 year.
After the compliance team corrected our award in Nov07 we then received wtc £567.27 and ctc £4080.70 our award shows we owed from this period £2686.82
The 07/08 period is a little more difficult as I now have 8or9 notices for this period. I have given the first finalised award notice which has our correct income on it. It is the first one after completing our declaration in July 08. We received wtc £1509.88 and ctc £4241.94 plus one giro for £238.03
Well splashin surprise surprise they clearly don’t tally!
Compliance investigated in Nov 2007
The TCO wrote to me on 25/06 08 saying we did not have to repay £2498 from the 2006/2007 tax year and £548.25 from the 2007/2008 tax year
On the finalised award for 07/08 i.e. the first after that letter, states “£2774.63 has already been collected back from future awards.” This is the £2498 plus a small amount that was owed from 2005/2006 tax year. I’m not sure whether they have reclaimed the £548 that amount is a little easier to “hide” when collecting back.
I’m not sure where I would find the remitted payment?
Thanks splashing

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ATCS
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



28 Posts

Posted - 19/04/2010 :  21:12:02  Show Profile Send ATCS a Private Message
Can any techy people out there advise me what can be wrong please.
My son has tried to copy the cds of all our calls so that we can send a copy to the Adjudicators office, but they won't work.
Does anyone have any suggestions please?



I dont know what the problem was but it is sorted now.

Edited by - ATCS on 19/04/2010 22:42:23
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