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whitevanwoman
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
65 Posts |
 Posted - 20/07/2008 : 09:38:45
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Hi Tracy
Sorry its taken a few days to get back to you, but I've been busy sorting out my own claim.
OK, in order to give you the correct advice I need to know some background info about you.
When did you start claiming the disability element of tax credits?
Before claiming tax credits were you claiming any other benefits (council tax benefit, income support, incapacity, jobseekers, housing benefit)?
If you were claiming any other benefit, did they have a disability element because of your dyslexia?
Were you doing a training course within 8 weeks of starting your claim for tax credits (for example, nursing training)?
Were you getting statutory sick pay or employers sick pay within 8 weeks of starting your claim for tax credits?
Do you normally work between 16 and 30 hours per week?
The rules surrounding disability are quite complicated and to be honest, not very fair. It means that in order to prove you have a genuine disability or long term health problem, the tax credit office wants you to apply for and receive Disability Living Allowance. However, if you have been ill or receiving certain benefits with a disability element before you started claiming tax credits, you may not have to be getting DLA.
In my case, I was the same as you about not wanting to claim DLA. I have been diagnosed with long term mental illness and I can have long periods when I am reasonably well and able to work part-time, and then periods when I am really unwell and have to take several weeks or months off work. For someone who is physically active, and involved in lots of different things when I am well, I didn't want to apply for DLA for 2 reasons :
1. I didn't "feel" disabled compared to people in wheelchairs etc
2. I really didn't want to have to go through all the stress and hassle of yet another complicated benefit form after the hassle and stress of applying for tax credits, and other benefits such as council tax etc, especially when I didn't think I would qualify as my condition varies.
I went back into part-time work after being on incapacity benefit for more than 6 months. Under the tax credit guidelines, this should have automatically qualified me for the disability element (as incap ben is a "qualifying benefit" under their Fast Track rules). However, many of the helpline advisors at the time were totally unfamiliar with the rules about disability and they told me that I didn't qualify and I had to battle with them and read out the guidelines over the phone several times before they gave in and admitted they were wrong. Unfortunately, by this time, my claim was so messed up, the computer kept rejecting my details and so I was put on manual payments. This meant I was getting giros through the post but I had no proof of entitlement and no idea of how it had been worked out and so I couldn't claim free prescriptions, dental treatment etc. It has taken 2 years of complaining, followed by a letter to Gordon Brown and my MP and it is still not sorted out - I am now officially "disputing" the "overpayments" which they say arose because I was not entitled to the disability element because I was not getting DLA.
However, during this time, the stress of all this and the resulting desperate financial situation, meant that I had a major relapse over the past year or so, and had to be signed off work for 3 months over last winter. Whilst I was signed off sick and at my worst, my support workers advised me to claim DLA which I had held off claiming for several years, and because of the state I was in when I put in my claim for DLA, I got the highest rate for care, which automatically qualified for the disability element of tax credits and an enhanced rate of tax credits too.
I have now got a new tax credit claim in regular payment from the date that DLA was awarded and (touching wood) that seems to be going ok now.
It isn't easy to justify being in receipt of DLA on days like today when I am well, busy and enjoying life but the government has decided I am entitled to it so I might as well benefit from it. I try to use that money to do things I wouldn't be able to do otherwise and which helps prevent my condition getting worse - like, for example, paying for the petrol to go and see friends and family, paying for a freezer full of ready meals, so that on days when I am not well and not up to cooking a meal, I can just microwave a ready meal instead.
I do think it would be worth you applying for DLA - you are given it for a fixed amount of time (in my case 2 yrs) before they review it, so you don't have to keep informing them of changes in circumstances, also it is not taken into account as income as far as other benefits such as housing benefit, council tax benefit etc are concerned.
Not only is DLA extra money, but it is a "passport" benefit which basically makes it alot easier for claiming the disability benefits of other benefits. Because I am now getting DLA, I get extra discounts off my council tax and I am now paying about half of what I was paying before I got DLA.
So my advice to you is to claim DLA. It's a really long complicated form and you really MUST get help from CAB or welfare benefits advisor filling it in as many DLA claims get rejected at first because people don't give enough information about just how difficult life can be sometimes because of your "disability".
If you can let me have answers to the questions above, I'll look at the guidelines and see whether you met the conditions for the disability element. Don't worry if you didn't as we can still fight the overpayment on the grounds that they should never have paid you the money if you didn't meet the conditions.
I hope this helps reassure you a little - I'm glad you've got your dad to help out with your paperwork. Keep me informed and I'll help as much as I can.
wvw xxx
Instructions for life:
1.breathe in
2.breathe out
3.repeat ad infinitum
"Realise that if you have time to whine and complain about something then you have the time to do something about it" (Anthony d'Angelo)
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missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2008 : 17:02:30
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Sorry to crash your thread - it is very kind of you to help Tracy out like this. I agree with everything you have said re DLA, whilst it might seem daunting there is plenty of help available with the forms and it can make a real difference is awarded.
A couple of points/questions for WVW:
1. Don't forget that meeting the qualifying benefit test in itself is not enough to qualify for the disability element of tax credits - you must also meet the disadvantage at work test (which is a list of particular criteria)
2. The training for work provision is very specific and is linked to receipt of IB or SDA. Only certain training qualifies under Reg 9B WTC Entitlement Regs.
3. Regarding your own situation you mentioned that 'I am now officially "disputing" the "overpayments" which they say arose because I was not entitled to the disability element because I was not getting DLA'. If you have an overpayment because the TCO are alleging that they gave you a disability element when you were not entitled - then you should not be disputing this but appealing. This is an entitlement issue.
On this last point, apologies if I have missed an earlier thread. But if they have removed a disability element and you think you were entitled, then it is an appeal - hopefully you are within the appeal time limits.
Again, nice of you to help Tracy.
MF2 |
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whitevanwoman
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
65 Posts |
Posted - 20/07/2008 : 19:04:16
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Hi MF2
Thanks for the reminder about the disadvantage at work reg - I'd forgotten about that & I'm just looking at it now to see whether it covers dyslexia. It depends on the classification of dyslexia - whether it is classed as a mental illness, or mental disability. any comments?
With regard to my own case, I have received a letter from HMRC telling me that they "are currently looking at my request to reconsider recovery of your tax credits overpayments", that's why I used that phrase. I haven't actually put in a formal dispute and I think that this letter from HMRC is either the result of a letter of complaint submitted 2 years ago or the result of my MPs involvement. To be honest, I'm not really sure what is going on, the main thing is that my new claim is in payment and I have loads of paperwork which indicates huge errors all along the line with my first claim and which has been completely messed up until the computer wouldn't accept my claim and my claim was done manually by a named person at TCO Preston for 2 years. It was because they initially said that I had to be on DLA to get the dis element, but I had been on Incap Ben for over 6 months and I met several of the criteria of the disadvantage test but they kept saying this wasn't enough, I had to be on DLA. Eventually after reading their own guidelines to them, they admitted their error but by that point the computer kept rejecting my claim.
Eventually someone ended that claim and I started a new claim on the same grounds and it was accepted and I started to receive payments. I had been advised to wait until it was in payment and then put in a complaint about the previous claim and the way it had been handled so I did this in July 07 and copied it to my MP. On receiving my complaint, the first thing they did was to cancel my new claim.
Through my MP's involvement, after several months they started making manual payments, and this situation drifted on for 2 yrs. Every so often I would ring the named contact at TCO Preston only to be told that the computer system still wouldn't accept my claim.
At the 2 yr stage, needing dental treatment desperately, and needing to put in a new claim as I'd been made redundant and therefore lost my entitlement and then found new work within 8 wks, the TCO Preston contact told me that my previous claim would be reinstated under the 8 wk rule. After several weeks and various calls to the hotline (who had never heard of the 8 week rule), I was eventually told I would need to put in a new claim. By this point, the stress of the redundancy, financial situation and tax credit probs had made me ill again and I'd been signed off work and had qualified for highest care DLA so I put in a new claim which should have automatically qualified me for the dis element. They "lost" my new claim for a couple of weeks and then by chance, I telephoned TCO Preston and the person I spoke to had it in front of her. She sorted everything out for me over the phone and I got 3 months back pay the next week and the claim was in payment through my bank account within the next 2 weeks & there's been no probs since.
Then this overpayment dispute letter arrived so I'm not really sure what it refers to as I was getting overpayment demands for the past 3 years on a regular basis but just kept being told to ignore them because they were computer generated and were wrong.
I'm going to be sending off a SARN request this week - I've kept careful notes of all telephone calls etc but alot of my calls were to TCO Preston which I understand were not recorded. However, I'm pretty sure that there will be evidence in calls where they clearly admit their errors and the fact that the overpayment demands are computer generated and I should ignore them. Not only that but I have witnesses to what they said in the form of mental health advocates who have dealt with the hotline advisors on my behalf when I was too ill to talk to them myself.
My plan is :
1. to submit SARN request
2. to send a letter to dispute team explaing all the above and requesting more information about the "disputed overpayment" - how much, which year (s) etc
3. to update MP on situation including copy of letter to dispute team
4. to then wait and see what happens - the latest letter says that they "will send me another letter as soon as we have looked at all the facts about your overpayment and decided how much, if anything, we will ask you to pay back."
Again your comments appreciated.
Having been through such a horrendous experience myself with Tax Credits, I will gladly help anyone else in a similar position if I can do. I've learned alot about tax credits & disability over the past 3 years and I am lucky enough to be able to express myself clearly in writing even when unwell so if my experiences are helpful or useful to others, then I'm really pleased that others can benefit from this and so some good can come from the whole sorry mess. Not only that but helping others does wonders for my self esteem, so I can't claim to be doing this for totally altruistic reasons!
Instructions for life:
1.breathe in
2.breathe out
3.repeat ad infinitum
"Realise that if you have time to whine and complain about something then you have the time to do something about it" (Anthony d'Angelo) |
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tracy
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2008 : 12:54:02
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Thank you everyone for your advise and support.
I have been receiving the disability element from 2003 when I started training as a nurse and was supported by my university, who gave me a disability allowance for a home computer, extra tuition and an english tutor to help me with the construction and english grammer in my assignments, I did not receive payment but they paid for the additional help I received.
WFTC are asking for the disability element to be stopped from Sept 06 till Jan 08 when I cancelled my claim. I cant understand why i they are only going back two years, and why they are happy to pay from 2003 till 2006. Maybe they think that dyslexia just goes away!! I was only diagnoised in 2003.
During my nurse training I worked 37.5 hrs per week, these hours have to be worked in practice in order that I qualified. I then worked from 2006 on qualifying for agencys as I had problems securing a full time job, so the hours were a bit erratic. From Sept 2007 I secured a temp contract for 9 months, 37.5 hours per week as a nurse working in intensive care, my contract run out in july, 2008 but i had already cancelled my claim with WFTC in January, 2008.
Any changes to my working contracts and hours I informed them by telephone, because I worked shifts it was difficult to work out child care and my weekly payments, so I gave them a typical weeks shift and THEY WORKED IT ALL OUT, not me. They are the ones that have made all the cock ups not me and now I am expected to pay them 12,000 pounds.
I have requested a dispute form, and I have letters from my old university proving that I was diagnosed by a psycologist and that they were supporting me academically during my time at Uni.
What do I do next, what arguments do I have? The time span of yes for 2003-2006 and no for 2006-jan 2008. I will send them copies of the proof that I have and then what? It takes me ages to read anything, up to three times longer, as I cant read in a straight line and have to keep starting back at the begining. I need clear instructions, 1-10, 1st you do this, 2nd then you do that.
I do not want to claim anyother disability benefits as I feel that it would prejudice any future employment. Its hard enough working in the enviorment I work in with out people thinking that I am thick or incapable of reading. I can read but slower that your average person. The NHS trust I work for recognises dyslexia as a disability and it is against the law to prejudice against anyone that has it, as well as any other disabilitys.
I am finding it difficult to understand what has gone on, and how to deal with these people. I cant sleep and I know I am depressed, again if I go to the doctors and get put on anti depressants I have to declare this when applying for jobs and they will class it as a mental illness. I dont know where to turn.
Tracy
tracy |
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tracy
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
5 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2008 : 13:50:09
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just an up date.
i have printed off the letter acknowledging receipt of overpayments letter and letter requested data and also the letter halting proceedings until dispute is sorted.
I am really, really angry and I am feeling a lot better after reading e-mails of support. I hope the anger will be my driving force now, I will not give up and I am determined to make a point. They cant just move the goal posts to suite themselves.
Wish me luck.
tracy |
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whitevanwoman
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
65 Posts |
Posted - 22/07/2008 : 23:20:36
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Well done for fighting back. It won't be easy but you'll get loads of help here on the forum and from Tax Credit Casualties. If you need any help, just give us a shout here on the forum, and we'll do what we can to help.
I think the best thing you can do to start off with is to send off the letters you've just downloaded from tax credit casualties.
Concentrate on getting those sent off, and then you can sit back and take a breath, knowing that those letters should get them off your back for the moment. It might take ages for your SARN (data) request to come through so in the meantime what you will need to do is to go back and work out exactly what you earned during the years that they say they've overpaid you. You can do this by looking at your P60s or any P45s.
From what you've said, I'm a little worried that you might not have qualified for the disability element as you were actually working too many hours. For the disability element you have to be working between 16 and 30 hours per week.
What you need to do especially for the time when you were doing agency work is work out what your average weekly hours were. Add together all the hours worked over a 3 month (13 week) period including weeks when you didn't work, and then divide by 13 to get the average. You can also do the same for a 6 month period (26 weeks) or for the year. By doing this, and including weeks where you say your hours were erratic because of the agency work, you might find that your average weekly hours are between 16 and 30.
When you've done all that come back and let us know how you're getting on.
Hang on in there, its not easy but you'll get it sorted eventually. Just don't let it get you down. I know it sounds easier said than done, but most of us here on the forum have been through exactly the same stress and depression as a result of tax credit problems so we do understand.
Anyone else got any advice? Miss Froy, Ali, PJ etc
Instructions for life:
1.breathe in
2.breathe out
3.repeat ad infinitum
"Realise that if you have time to whine and complain about something then you have the time to do something about it" (Anthony d'Angelo) |
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missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2008 : 07:57:07
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quote:
Originally posted by whitevanwoman
From what you've said, I'm a little worried that you might not have qualified for the disability element as you were actually working too many hours. For the disability element you have to be working between 16 and 30 hours per week.
What you need to do especially for the time when you were doing agency work is work out what your average weekly hours were. Add together all the hours worked over a 3 month (13 week) period including weeks when you didn't work, and then divide by 13 to get the average. You can also do the same for a 6 month period (26 weeks) or for the year. By doing this, and including weeks where you say your hours were erratic because of the agency work, you might find that your average weekly hours are between 16 and 30.
Anyone else got any advice? Miss Froy, Ali, PJ etc
Ok....I think the best thing for Tracy is to go and seek some advice and get support from CAB, Taxaid, LITRG etc....
WVW - a couple of the things you mention above are incorrect.
1. You DO NOT need to be working 16-30 hrs to get the disability element. You only need to work more than 16. There is no upper limit.
2. Averaging of hours - this is sticky ground. If you do not work for more than 7 days then technically your claim ends. There are absolutely no rules that allow averaging over 3 months, 6 months or 12 months. The helpline are known to give wrong advice in this respect - but the legislation only states that it is the hours you usually work. If you try and average over 12 months it is possible that compliance would pick up on this. Again I recommend advice here.
Tracy - on the points you raise in your email some thoughts from me:
1. At a guess it sounds like they are looking at 2006-2007 onwards because they can. They cannot reopen earlier years unless it is for good reason, the Section 19 compliance window has passed so unless they can use the discovery section that is probably the reason. It is possible they will reopen if they believe there was neglect and fraud on your part.
2. Were you claiming Working Tax Credit & Childcare element from 2003? The work you did as part of your nursing training would not count for the work requirements of WTC or the childcare costs. Only if you did any other work (outside that related to your training) would it count.
3. The problem with the disability element, and this happens a lot, is that it is whether you are disabled for tax credit purposes, rather than whether anyone else (or even you) recognise yourself as having a disability.
1. You must pass the disadvantage at work test
2. You must pass the qualifying benefit test
So the relevant fact is have you ever claimed any disability related benefit (even as far back as disabled persons tax credit).
4. Finally, if the overpayment stands and you were not entitled to the disability element you could try for a write off under the exceptional circumstances ground i.e. that your dyslexia meant you found the forms and notes difficult and led to you misunderstanding the requirements for teh disability element and that because your job recognises your disability that led you to believe it was so for tax credits.
Above all, please get some help. It is difficult enough for those without dyslexia to manage the paperwork but it must be extra hard for you. The papers from HMRC are often unintelligable at the best of times.
Good luck
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2008 : 08:03:14
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Thanks, Miss Froy - your regular input on these threads had been terrific, and I hope you can stick around. WVW posted this link on another thread, for the Disability Alliance:
http://www.disabilityalliance.org/index.htm and I am wondering if they might have answers and lines of dispute with HMRC?
We have been needing some input on disability issues for a while, and I have been remiss in following this up previously - mainly due to the complexities, but I am glad Miss Froy is here to advise.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 23/07/2008 : 09:10:21
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I agree, the disability element is one of the most confusing parts of the tax credit entitlement. I think it is probably the most problematic in terms of people getting it wrong (i.e. the error rate is high).
Clearly that is not necessarily claimant fault - but because of complex rules which are difficult to explain, lengthy guidance that is hard to understand for most lay people, confusion about levels of DLA generally, poor helpline understanding of the elements which leads to incorrect advice...
MF2 |
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information for tracy
