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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
 Posted - 24/09/2008 : 20:16:47
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Hi all, so glad to have found this web site and forum.
Having read through some of the posts my demand for payment seems very small but it does not cause us to worry any less i can assure you, especially in the modern climate and we are already doing the shopping at aldi instead of tescos...
we have requested the dispute form and also a full breakdown of our tax credits back to 2003. We have gone back through our bank ac to get the dates of any monies we recieved and as we have not recieved any credits since July 2005 it was no mean feat!
What a tiny dispute form. Does any one have any guidelines how best to fill this out asnd the timescale that we have in which to return the information....we all know that BOLD LETTERING STATES 1 MONTH again and again in the info leaflet....
question 2... why do they ask for the money now for monies owing to year 2005 in 2008?
Why were we not aware of it prior to now?
If i had known that i would be recieving this bill i would have saved up all of my copper coins and sent it to them in the return second class prepaid envelope. I am sure i could have saved up enough between then and now...
Question 3.... what is the second income disreguard limit ( about fourteen thousand pounds) and why does it not state this on the web site and does any one understand it???
How can we have had an overpayment in 2003 - 2004 when i had no income and my husband earned less than 20,000 for two of us and two children....
last question.. is it true that bailiffs have been sent to people unanounced and really knocked on neighbours doors asking to gain access? I am really worried now. My disabled 13yr old is at home for 2 hours a day with no adult... would they really knock and gain access?
Ok So im worried.. but i hope with a little help from my new friends here.. we will survive... just.....
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!!
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician
United Kingdom
619 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2008 : 22:13:38
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Hi there
Welcome to the mad world of tax credit overpayments! Re filling in the dispute form, I suggest you go to the main website and follow the dispute link www.taxcc.org. Also, make a SARN request so that you have copies of all the information held on your claim by HMRC. There are people on here who can help you to decipher the information when you receive it.
With regard to filling in the dispute form, I have always been led to believe that it is best not to put too much on the form as you can pad out your dispute later on when you have studied the information that you get via the SARN request. Once you have sent in the dispute form, any pending court action should be stopped. I don't think bailiffs would be visiting until such time as you have been taken to court by HMRC and found guilty. Hopefully you are a long way off from this stage.
However, we do know that inspectors or officials from HMRC have been turning up at people's homes unannounced to try to get claimants with overpayments to enter into repayment schedules or even pay up what they supposedly owe. Under no circumstances should you allow them in or agree to discuss anything with them on your doorstep. If someone does turn up, tell them to go away as you are in dispute.
With regard to your thirteen year old, I assume that if you are able to leave him or her unsupervised in the house they know what to do if anyone knocks on the door (ignore them I should think). If you are concerned that your child would open the door and is vulnerable then I don't think you should be leaving them alone in the house. I think it is illegal to leave any child under the age of fourteen unsupervised whether they have a disability or not. I have a disabled son and can well imagine that your having to leave your child alone will be due to circumstances beyond your control, for example something to do with school transport not fitting in with other people in the family being around, so maybe it would be a good idea to speak to your social worker or refer yourself to your local Children and Families Service for support with this. They ought to be able to provide a carer to sit with your child or provide somewhere where they could be cared for such as a breakfast or after school club.
Hope this helps and good luck with your dispute.
Auntie
"You can dress a pig in a suit but you can't stop it grunting" |
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 19:56:05
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OMG! made myself out to sound awful......
What i forgot to say was that my 17 year old daughter is also at home ( she is doing A levels) but is not what i would claass as an "adult" being here. My son would be so distressed if someone ( eg a un anounced bailiff) appeared at the door...
May i ask another question? as i feel really cheeky now and dont like to ask but...
when you do your forms every year and it states overpayment that we have claimed back etc and the entitlement for the next year etc..should any overpayment from a previous year be carried forward?
we reallu dont understand all of this projected and then confirmed etc and have stated this on numerous occasions to them.
Again, keep up the good work and thankyou foor your help.. the road looks rocky but with a sledge hammer rocks can crumble..
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2008 : 19:52:56
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Hi all, we have recieved the initial dispute form and sat down again the other night with all of the past tax credit paperwork...which surprise surprise needlessly does not make sense and also seems incomplete. I am sure that if i kept this much i would have kept it all.. can i ask them to prove that they sent it?
Please help?
We are being billed for overpayment year 2005 - 2006... but..
looking back we have noted that the figures stated that they woild pay to my hubbys bank ac are not the same as the ones they said they would pay.. This is not only in this year but previous and subsequent.
They are stating to put on the dispute form the year we are disputing ( eg on our paperwork from them..
Can we put down that we dispute other years too? or do we have to file for seperate claims?
This is really so confusing. Have downloaded and printed all of your great info and templates which i am sure will aid us all the way.
many thanks in anticipation of your responce.
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2008 : 01:38:07
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Hi Dfoneac01,
Glad you found us. With regards to your plan of immediate action. The dispute form doesn't need to be completed to the hilt with errors and facts to begin your dispute. All you need too basically state in the initial dispute, is that your are disputing this overpayment for whichever tax years it covers. I would always say though try to find out in what tax year it commences and then list every tax year after that tax years it covers. List them also like this 2003/2004, 2004/2005, 2005/2006 and so on. You don't really have to even go into too much detail. Just that you are disputing and have requested your SAR documents and will submit a full detailed body of evidence, once these documents are received by yourself and looked at. This will halt the recovery process. Now I am not sure if there is a time limit on this, as in some cases that I have seen they allow 4 weekly blocks others get years. Concentrate on your SAR documents firstly, make a request for them ASAP as they take supposedly 40 days. But if that happens then you would be the first.
Don't worry about THE 1 MONTH, that should really only apply to you getting a new award notice after submitting income details for end of year or making a change on your claim egg. circumstances.
Why are they requesting this money now from way back in 2005.
The first few years of Tax Credits beginning were extremely confused. There were many, many, many people genuinely overpaid in these first few years. But there were also thousands and thousands and thousands of people who were overpaid through no fault of their own or because there is an error on your system claim.
About the second income disregard limit,, this only applies once your income level goes above 50,000. Both WTC and CTC have there own first income threshold, WTC being 5060.00 and CTC being 13480.00 for 04/05.
Each year these figures change, due to the budget. You can find out these amounts from HMRC website, (but HEY ) so we don't have to even dip ours toes in the water of the HMRC website.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ntcmanual/awards/ntc0100160.htm
Now I am going to try to explain how to calculate your yearly figure. Please don't take these figures as the exact, but I can say my answers will be within a £50 either way, if you know what I mean.
Firstly you need to add up all the elements your family qualify for. From your post I gathered the general idea of what I think you should get with what you have wrote.
So I am using Joint claimants with 1 full time worker (30+ hours) with a household income of 20,000. 2 x children, no childcare costs.
For the tax year in question (these element amounts also change each year, not much but they do).
So for example:
This is for the tax year 2004-2005
04/05
(Year) (daily rate)
1st Adult 1570 4.30
Partner/2nd Adult 1545 4.23
30 Hour Element 640 1.75
Child 1625 4.45
Child 1625 4.45
Family Element 545 1.49
Disabled Child 2215 6.07
So for the 04-05 tax year your household elements added up to a total amount of £9765 for the full tax year. Your household income was 20,000.
20000.00
-13480.00 (2nd Inc Threshold)
- 2500.00 (Income Disregard)
x 37% (taper)(ALWAYS IS 37%)
1579.90 (balance to be taken away from your qualified elements)
b]8185.10[/b] (AMOUNT OF ANNUAL AWARD)
With regards to people coming knocking on your door. Yes it does happen. I would make them aware of this, under no circumstances what so ever should they even open the door to these people, not even you!!!!! Once they in they in!
Good Luck
Keep us posted and questioned.
Splashin 
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 23/10/2008 : 20:03:27
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Update,
Hi all, well the SAR paperwork turned up today. HUGE Jiffy and next day postage lol....
So... have taken the day off work tomorrow in order to have a look and try to make sense of it. It just seems like lists and lists of our names and addresses etc.
Still yet to get the CD with recordings of phone calls..
Any one know how long this may take to come through?
Thanks for the great web site. Couldnt do it without you
Many thanks
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2008 : 09:20:30
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PLease please help... I think i may have found something in my sar request which may help but im not sure....
i have screen capture which reads...
CREATION DATE 04/08/2005
EVENT DATE 06/04/2006
RENEWALS AND REMINDERS
UNPROC S17 VF RULE 12 CLEARED RES FAILED DUE TO COC ERROR. PLACE OF WORK. UK DATES ENTERED. DEC PROCESSED OSU ETCETC
Could the be the piece of info i am looking for ???? it seems like they have admitted to making a mistake?
please helps asap i am lost in piles of SAR requests..
Many thanks
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2008 : 13:49:28
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Hi Donna - haven't a clue! But Splashin will know, so I've emailed her.
Morpheus: They are the gatekeepers, they are guarding all the doors and holding all the keys.
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missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 25/10/2008 : 23:54:40
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quote:
Originally posted by dfoneac01
PLease please help... I think i may have found something in my sar request which may help but im not sure....
i have screen capture which reads...
CREATION DATE 04/08/2005
EVENT DATE 06/04/2006
RENEWALS AND REMINDERS
UNPROC S17 VF RULE 12 CLEARED RES FAILED DUE TO COC ERROR. PLACE OF WORK. UK DATES ENTERED. DEC PROCESSED OSU ETCETC
Could the be the piece of info i am looking for ???? it seems like they have admitted to making a mistake?
please helps asap i am lost in piles of SAR requests..
Many thanks
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!!
I'm not Splashin but my interpretation of that would be a Section 17 (renewal papers) was not processed due to a verification failure.
The failure (Rule 12) is a residency criteria:
Residency Criteria not Met
The claimant has not satisfied one or more of the residency rules because they have reported at least one of the following
They do not live in the UK
The claimant and / or partner do not work in the UK
They are subject to immigration control
However the next part of the sentence seems to indicate that this verification failure was cleared by entering UK dates for place of work. The declaration was then processed.
Normally, forms are scanned onto the system. Various checks are made on the system and sometimes it doesn't accept it because of a 'verification failure'. When this happens the case is put onto a 'worklist' where the TCO will manually pick each one up and see what the failure is and where possible take corrective action which appears to have happened here.
Of course Spashin may completely disagree, but hopefully comes up with something similar!!
MF2 |
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 26/10/2008 : 09:16:11
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Awww thanks ... thought for a minute. we were high n dry ... Never mind... I cant believe how many mistakies there are in thier paperwork... ovbiously another stupid error on thier part.... we both are uk citizens, work in the uk!
There are also screen captures showing a date each month recently with a figure and recovery next to it... not sure what this means? are they reducing our debt? but we are not paying anything? it continues right up to last month. Have checked bank statements and nothing is coming off them? could they be taking it from elsewhere? eg direct out of wages without us knowing..
Knowing our luck it will just be interest lol...
1 very interesting peice of info came up....not on any one of the screen captures for period summaries did it say overpaayment oustanding.... should this not be carried over from year to year?
Many thanks and sorry for all the questions.. took me 6 hours to sort it... why on earth do they do 3 copies of the same info over and over? lol
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
 Posted - 17/11/2008 : 20:33:53
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HI All,
OK sars paperwork sorted...
WORD OF WARNING!!!!
We today recieved a new tax credits award stating that they had paid £154. into our ac and they will be paying £44 pm into our ac every 4 weeks.
When phoning to ask why they have stated that during a dispute they have to pay any monies they would have owed you to you.They will decide whether or not to add this to the amount of overpayment when the dispute is finished.
We are banking the money and hanging on to it as am sure they will ask for it back at some stage ( typical)
Asked the very nice Nikki to explain which she did her best but as usual tried to fob us off with lots of flannel.
Also asked her where our Cds are? to which she replied.. you have to write to a different department as its not done here. We have been waiting since 1st week in Oct. I did tell her that is not in the thier information and stated your letter eg that by not sorting it as requested in my letter for SARs that they are contravening my data protection act.. she was most flummoxed..... and apologetic but could not help.
I also suggested to her that if she was unable to make head to tail of our claim why would we be able to? she did say it was very difficult and that lots of people may find it confusing. I have stated to ther that every time i spoke to the dept that i have explained that we dont understand.. Not very helpful i know.
Letter came back 2 days ago from my MP..
Not really helpful i dont think but you may differ to agree..
Included letter from Anne Cadman Customer support manager.
"blah blah looked at the overpayment of £2454.78" ( tax credits award today stated it is £1922.88 - 167.38 - 13.44 = 1742.06)
" i should point out we have come across a problem with 2007 /8 and 2008/9 awards"
2005 / 6
while waitin for me to complete 2004/5 declaration we began making payments for 05/06 based on the most recent information we had available. estimated provisional entitlement £2485.29
yada yada yada
" having carefully considered all of the relevent facts about how the overpayment arose i consider we are rght to ask for repayment" This is because the overpayemnt was caused by an increase in the family income figure when mrs me made annual declaration rcd 25/5/6. I am satisfied that the award notices contained sifficient info " yada yada
" there is nothing in our records to suggest me contacted during the yaer to report taht the household income was likely to be more than 31624
2007 / 8
did not apply our overrun on childcare when it ended. re instated our award
yada yada yada
WHAT NEXT?????/
driving me mad.. Mp just a go between but does not seem to have a lot of clout.. Maybe im just not shouting loud enough??
fanks and sorry to rattle on
XX Donna XX
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 17/11/2008 : 23:16:41
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>>Mp just a go between but does not seem to have a lot of clout.. Maybe im just not shouting loud enough??<<
Tell the useless bugger to get up to speed on this because you're going to involve the press and they will be asking him for a comment or three. Tell him/her that he/she really doesn't want to look silly when this happens!!
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2008 : 06:43:33
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Thanks honey, I will.
I will be meeting with him on Jan 8th as he is attending our presentation ceremony at work so dont want to be too nasty. We have a number to contact eg his assistant. I am looking to book an appt with her as soon as poss....
I dont know.. should we just say blow it and offer to pay them back? dont know how, debt debt and debt but i dont suppose they take that into consideration when they do thier calculations.. they think we need to pay back £140 pm... suppose i could sell my car but then would not be able to work..
think we would be better off if we were not working :o(
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 18/11/2008 : 07:14:03
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"I dont know.. should we just say blow it and offer to pay them back? ... suppose i could sell my car but then would not be able to work.."
Don't, whatever you do, pay them even so much as a penny back if you did nothing wrong; if you deliberately misled them, please go ahead, be my guest, but not if the only thing you did was compliant and honest, and based on what you thought you needed to do at the time or what you were told to do, I would really urge you to stand your ground. Giving in to bullies just makes the bullies stronger, more invincible, and more determined to go after everyone else because it works. If you stand your ground and fight them, and everyone does the same, they will have to change their ways because they will be the ones out of line, the ones clearly in the wrong. We will support you however we can.
If you beat the CSA, you have had a good training already in the ways and means of government organisations. If you have done nothing wrong, you will eventually win, and feel better for it. And you won't have to sell your car.
Morpheus: They are the gatekeepers, they are guarding all the doors and holding all the keys.
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2008 : 06:27:52
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yet more c**k ups....
phoned TCC yesterday to inform them my daughter has quit school.. 6th form.. they only had me down as 1 qualifying child so will sort it out and send out a new set of paperwork...
how stupid are these people????/
I clearly stated when i rang them previously daughter attending 6th form in sept....GRRRRRRRR
this will only lead to them sending us more money as we are in dispute which is going straight into a high interest ac just in case we have to pay it back.... shoudl we really have to live with this idiocy??
A very frustrated Donna xx
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 20/11/2008 : 08:19:02
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Hiya,
These are apparently HMRC's 'responsibilities' under their new COP26:
HM Revenue and Customs should:
o Give correct advice
o Record and use information accurately
o Correct errors notified by claimant
o Update reported changes in circumstances within 30 days
...and these are ours - helpful way after the event, aren't they? But just disregard any you couldn't have known about or guessed from your crystal-ball gazing...
The main responsibilities for the claimant (from 1 February 2008) are to:
o Give accurate, complete and up to date information
o Report changes in circumstances
o Use the checklist to check every award notice
o Tell HMRC of errors in an award notice within 1 month
o Check that amounts received agree with the award notice
What I'd do is list every instance you can think of which shows how HMRC didn't meet their responsibilities, copy the letter to your MP and to TAX CREDIT CASUALTIES, put 'cc'ed to' on the letter so HMRC KNOW THIS, and threaten to go to the Press. It really is the fastest way to get a modicum of justice!
HMRC couldn't 'record and use information correctly' to save their lives! It is a huge joke. So turn it on them and shame them - and go and win!
Morpheus: They are the gatekeepers, they are guarding all the doors and holding all the keys.
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dfoneac01
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
10 Posts |
Posted - 22/11/2008 : 08:07:18
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Hi all, thanks so far for all of your support and advice.
Just one little question???
On the award notices sent out... does the TCO "have" to put any carried forward overpayments on each notice?
we dont seem to have that on our plus we have some missing..
Many thanks from me sitting here again in a pile of crushed trees!
Donna
I BEAT THE CSA.. BRING IT ON!!!!!! |
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starters for £1720 and dont forget the 41p
