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n/a
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240 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2007 :  09:11:01  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
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Robert
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United Kingdom
829 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2007 :  11:09:49  Show Profile Send Robert a Private Message
I saw this story yesterday evening,and posted comments about the HMRC wasting, probably millions on the court case, of our tax payers money,then brought in the waste of money, due to the Tax credit incompetence,and lined it with all the other bits as well.more bad publicity for the HMRC....

The truth is out there.. GO get it..

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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 26/07/2007 :  13:03:58  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by rosie

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I just copied this reader's quote from the above story;

HMRC really is out of control these days. HMRC acts as little more than Gordon Brown's own bully boys. They regularly swoop on law-abiding taxpayers with outrageous and unsubstantiated tax demands- they seem to hope that many people will pay up rather than fight an expensive drawn-out battle in the courts.

It is time HMRC were made to follow the letter of the law rather than constantly "interpreting" the law to their own advantage.


Hear hear!
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 27/07/2007 :  07:50:22  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
The problem, of course, being that their background has always been in taxation, dealing with the very rich (who have accountants anyway), and tackling enormous frauds, and tax evasion on a huge scale. They're not used to distributing something which - in the public perception, at least, and in the way it's glorified by its creators as the antidote to(rather than a cause of) poverty - is a benefit which people actually need to live on, and REASONABLY view as an entitlement, which someone actually bothered enough about to calculate correctly.

And therein lies the rub.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 17/08/2007 :  09:14:43  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Anyone upset at HMRC's bully-boy tactics and wanting to talk to the Press?

Following Wednesday August 15th's Daily Mirror article, 'Family Misfortunes : Parents struggling after child tax credit cock-up', we have an invitation:

'Have you had a problem with your tax or benefits?...Call Mirror Money on 0207 293 3323 or email us at Money@mirror.co.uk

Please also mention the Tax Credit Casualties, and we may be looking at a public launch!
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Robert
Admin



United Kingdom
829 Posts

Posted - 09/09/2007 :  14:36:05  Show Profile Send Robert a Private Message
Tax Man clueless to how much Arctic Systems case costed..i bet..or another farce to go with the rest of the ones caused at HMRC



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Taxman clueless over Arctic Systems costs

Kevin Reed, Accountancy Age, 06 Sep 2007
HMRC admits in FOI request that it has never calculated the costs involved in the Arctic Systems case


The taxman has never estimated the legal cost of taking the Arctic Systems’ case, it has admitted in revelations that are likely to open questions about the government’s decision making where big tax cases are concerned.

HM Revenue & Customs has admitted in response to a Freedom of Information Act request, submitted by Accountancy Age, that it has no calculation of the cost of the case. The case left Geoff and Diana Jones, the couple at the heart of the case, facing a long and potentially ruinous battle through the courts to defend their tax arrangements.

The Tories this week said they now planned to question government officials about their decision-making on the case, adding that the lack of a cost assessment showed a ‘disregard of taxpayers’.

‘HMRC has not calculated or recorded the total cost of this case,’ the response to the FOI request said.



The truth is out there.. GO get it..


Edited by - Robert on 09/09/2007 14:36:45
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n/a
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240 Posts

Posted - 15/09/2007 :  09:22:01  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Anyone from tax aid who can arrange an appeal and test case regarding this so called "certifcate of debt" it looks like a ministerpretation of rules
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Ali M-W
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3558 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  14:51:10  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Do we have access to these 'rules' anywhere? We could then take some advice on the interpretation...

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2007 :  09:03:16  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
...If we can find these 'rules' we could ask either the high profile lawyer that Sarah is now in touch with on a pro bono basis, or put this to George Osborne, Shadow Chancellor, as I believe he has a legal background. Many other sympathetic MPs do too - an avenue we must explore rather more, i think, in the future...

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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n/a
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240 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2007 :  15:37:01  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
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n/a
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240 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2007 :  15:54:47  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
From the above, notice overpayment of tax credit is NOT mentioned in the list of types of hearing....can anyone else find it?
If not - This should be challenged, urgently!
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2007 :  16:13:33  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
I'm a bit slow on the uptake lately, can someone explain what exactly you are looking for..sorry it's probably staring me in the face..but still not sure which documents are causing problems
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 06/10/2007 :  17:15:38  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Still not sure if I'm on the right track:
This is the form an official for hmrc should use
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These are rules re- certificate of debt--
'Claims in civil courts can often involve large amounts of written evidence presented by the parties involved. Since most cases pursued by HMRC are relatively straightforward, the Department has special legislation that permits evidence in support of tax and NIC claims to be presented to the court in a way that will normally avoid the need for lengthy documentation. This summary form of evidence is called a ‘certificate of debt’..........'is sufficient evidence that the sum is unpaid and due to the Crown.'
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This may also be useful, however it has probably been re-written
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Because archives for this url only go back to Jan 2007. It will exist somewhere previous but under a different url (web address) Just one minor change in the address will make it difficult to find in archives. But HMRC are not the smartist bunch of computer operators, it is very likely the url changed by accident or a whim rather than purpose.

To find archive (or altered, changed, tampered with stuff)
you will need to know the old url address, and can be quite a challenge and time consuming.

This is the latest url
You must be logged in to see this link. to search archives you would input this url into the way-back machine search box (shown below) however file names today may be renamed from earlier versions, so it does take a bit of digging around, they will exist somewhere
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They don't like publicity, why not?
It is essential that at each stage of enforcement proceedings, you avoid any action that could attract public criticism or complaint.

'As soon as you become aware of any potential case that may attract the attention of the press, radio or television, the higher debt manager should telephone the Assistant Head (Recovery) (in Scotland, the Assistant Head (Enforcement)) at once with details and send a narrative report if asked'.
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Certificates of debt
'You always have to satisfy the court that your claim is good before the court will enter judgment in your favour. However, your task is eased considerably by some very useful pieces of legislation that avoid the need to present detailed evidence about how your claim has come about. For example, TMA1970/S70(1) states that

"a certificate of the inspector or any other officer of the Board that tax has been charged and is due, together with a certificate of the debt manager that payment of the tax has not been made to him, or, to the best of his knowledge and belief, to any other debt manager, or to any person acting on his behalf or on behalf of another debt manager, shall be sufficient evidence that the sum mentioned in the certificate is unpaid and is due to the Crown; and any document purporting to be such a certificate as is mentioned in this subsection shall be deemed to be such a certificate until the contrary is proved". '
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Edited by - sammy on 06/10/2007 17:35:55
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n/a
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240 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  09:28:35  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
hi sammy, We are looking for as to whether this "certificate of debt" business is apt and should be used for "tax credit overpayments" - it seems to ONLY apply to income tax problems and has "wrongfully" been used for Tax Credit overpayment issues.
If this is the case, as TC overpayments is a new type of debt, since 2003 - HMRC have again used "unlawful procedures".

an abuse of powers.
We need a good tax lawyer to help us here to challenge the use of the certificate of debt in TC overpayment hearings.
Should be challenged. Hope this helps. Complex, but this is how they get away with such abuse of process...due to the complexity.
George Osborne may help. Especially now Brown bottled the election
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 07/10/2007 :  19:44:46  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by rosie

hi sammy, We are looking for as to whether this "certificate of debt" business is apt and should be used for "tax credit overpayments" - it seems to ONLY apply to income tax problems and has "wrongfully" been used for Tax Credit overpayment issues.
If this is the case, as TC overpayments is a new type of debt, since 2003 - HMRC have again used "unlawful procedures".

an abuse of powers.
We need a good tax lawyer to help us here to challenge the use of the certificate of debt in TC overpayment hearings.
Should be challenged. Hope this helps. Complex, but this is how they get away with such abuse of process...due to the complexity.
George Osborne may help. Especially now Brown bottled the election




Just to let you know that Sarah's in contact now with a high profile lawyer who is looking at what we have on a pro bono basis!

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2007 :  00:29:16  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Ahh I see what you guys are fishing at. But now tax credits are dealt with by hmrc, they are not dealt with by the old social security offices. Tax credits are not a benefit, it is completely different. You in fact are treat much the same way as a tax dodger. That is why the government were keen to introduce, they can (hmrc) have powers which the benefits office do not have.

I don't know which route you guys are thinking of...
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