| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
 Posted - 06/10/2008 : 12:25:53
|
Got my first disc from Data Compliance with 2 calls on. Had to write again (more money) Low and behold another 6 calls were found!!! However there are still some missing so I have to write again!!
Also got a reply from TCO via my MP. They acknowledged that not answering the questions I asked back in April was wrong and they should have been in touch sooner.
Goes on to list why overpayments occurred...Long Story Short...Where it states we did not contact them before such and such a date...I found in 10 minutes the letter we sent them to inform them of changes, well before the date required AND it had been stamped as received by TCO.
Needless to say I am now gathering all the info we have and my MP will be getting in touch again.
These people don't realise the stress they are putting people through. I've just wasted another weekend chasing stuff up for this lot.
The fight continues!!!!!
|
|
|
splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician
Belize
582 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2008 : 23:33:13
|
Smudge
Do you also have your documents?
Splash
 |
 |
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2008 : 12:30:59
|
Have my documents, but there are some letters missing that we know we sent. have asked them to trace them.
Thankfully the letter I mentioned in my last post covers three of the points raised.
They also have me down as being paid for 35 hours a week...something I never was. I worked 35 but was only paid for 31.5 which they rounded up to 32 and that is what it says on all my paperwork |
|
|
|
Missgelfling
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 14:32:15
|
I contacted Data Compliance because I had wrote to them as a phone call was missing. I used the template from this website and gave them 10 days to reply as it is suggested and I never got a reply. When I contacted Data Compliance, they said that it is not their policy to respond as it states in the letter that they send with your data that some data can be missing due to technical difficulties etc. The letter I received with all my data did not have anything about 'technical difficulties' and I read the whole letter out to the guy on the phone - apparently there's a whole paragraph on it. I basically wanted the phone call because I was disputing what they say I said in this phone call and data compliance say they do not have said phone call. They have never advised me that there is a chance that the phone call is available , I only want it because I know I told them that I was living with my partner and the way I see it, if there is no phone call, then I shouldn't have to pay the overpayment as they have no proof, even though I know I said it - they say the notes on the system go with what was discussed in the phone call but I have all my data and this is completely untrue - I have told them things and they have not made any notes so how they can tell me that I owe this money just because the guy I spoke to didn't jot it down is beyond me!
How did you go about getting your missing phone calls because I'm interested to see if they were just fobbing me off or whether they can actually retreive my phone call.
Thanks |
|
|
|
splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician
Belize
582 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2008 : 23:20:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by Smudge
Have my documents, but there are some letters missing that we know we sent. have asked them to trace them.
Thankfully the letter I mentioned in my last post covers three of the points raised.
They also have me down as being paid for 35 hours a week...something I never was. I worked 35 but was only paid for 31.5 which they rounded up to 32 and that is what it says on all my paperwork
Smudge
Don't worry too much about the 32 hours/ 35 hours showing in your documents. The computer system was designed to use only 16 & 30 hour when calculating any award.
Your letter to inform them of change in circumstances, look in household notes to find some type of entry after the HMRC date stamp. What exactly are HMRC stating is the overpayment reason? What years do this cover and what type of circumstances are you currently claiming for, are you still getting payments?
 
Splashin |
|
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 11:46:59
|
Hi Spashin
Sorry not been on for a while. My home PC died a death and had to be reset!!!!
Its all gone a bit quiet as my MP is now involved. He has sent off evidence on my behalf and they have said they will look into it and get back to him.
We're not claiming at all now and haven't been for some time. I'll get the letter tonight to tell you the overpayment reasons.
From what I remember, one point was that we did not tell them our eldest son had left school and started Uni'. We have a letter that they stamped as received with that information on.
Same again for Our second son and Uni'. Again we have letters that state when he was starting uni. Will get full info and tell you asap.
The problem I find is when a specific person writes to you and you write ack to them, you get an answer from someone else. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing. |
|
|
|
Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2850 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 12:45:05
|
>>The problem I find is when a specific person writes to you and you write ack to them, you get an answer from someone else. The left hand doesn't know what the right is doing.<<
Hi Smudge
You just hit the nail right on the head!!
I wouldn't do any harm to write to Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling & Jane Kennedy telling them exactly this, and asking if they think this is an acceptable situation!
When they don't reply, you can make it the subject of a complaint against each & every one of them to your MP.
I found that complaints were the way to get my victory, and believe that still to be true today, with the addition of publicity, so maybe you'd like to let the media know your views?
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
|
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 12:50:09
|
I actually got a reply from TCO to say that to get in touch with the person I was complaining about...I should write to the address on the top of the letter he sent me!!!! DOH! Never thought of that!
I wrote back to say that I had done just that 4 times! |
|
|
|
Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2850 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 12:54:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by Smudge
I actually got a reply from TCO to say that to get in touch with the person I was complaining about...I should write to the address on the top of the letter he sent me!!!! DOH! Never thought of that!
I wrote back to say that I had done just that 4 times!
Brilliant!!!
I really think that you should let Brown & Co AND your MP know about this.
If we don't let them know about our experiences how can we ever hope for a change?? 
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
|
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 20:06:38
|
For Splashin
This is from the letter I received and that my MP is dealing with with information supplied by us.
"I have checked all of our records to see if Mr and Mrs ****** contacted us before 8 July 2003 to inform us their household income had changed from £11,804,00 to £17,658,10 However I could find no evidence of this. We had a letter marked as received by the TCO on 27 May 2003 in which we told them our income had gone up.
From TCO...I have also checked all of our records to see if Mr&Mrs **** contacted us before the 16th August 2004 to inform us that their household income had changed from £17,658,10 to £22,794,00, however I could find no evidence of this. My wife rang TCO on 05.05.2004 to tell them of my hours and our latest joint earnings. She also expresses her concern that after several letters about our changes she has yet to hear anything from them. This call was recorded and we have it on CD.
From TCO... I have also checked all of our records etc etc. contacted us before 22 December 2005 to inform us that their son ***** had left full time education on the 15 September 2003 However I could not find any evidence to show this. Due to Mr&Mrs ***** delaying in reporting the changes in their circumstances, the overpayment remains fully recoverable. We have a letter dated as received by TCO on 27 May 2003 that states "Our eldest son has left school on the 16th May and will be going to Hull University in September"
I will give you further details tommorow as i have more evidence at work |
|
|
|
Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3413 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 07:16:44
|
Hi Smudge,
Right, according to HMRC's latest COP26, these are the responsibilities HMRC sets out for itself and for us:
HM Revenue and Customs should:
o Give correct advice
o Record and use information accurately
o Correct errors notified by claimant
o Update reported changes in circumstances within 30 days
The main responsibilities for the claimant (from 1 February 2008) are to:
o Give accurate, complete and up to date information
o Report changes in circumstances
o Use the checklist to check every award notice
o Tell HMRC of errors in an award notice within 1 month
o Check that amounts received agree with the award notice
My suggestion would be to write to HMRC stating this and pointing out how they have breachyed their responsibilities.
For example, taking "Record and use information accurately", you have said: "We had a letter marked as received by the TCO on 27 May 2003 in which we told them our income had gone up." So yes, you did contact them before 8th July 2003, and they did not act immediately on this information and "record and use" it correctly. Even worse, you state "My wife rang TCO on 05.05.2004 to tell them of my hours and our latest joint earnings." So not only has HMRC failed to "Record and use information accurately", but they have also failedin this instance to "Update reported changes in circumstances within 30 days" and under their rules you should not be held responsible for any overpayment they have caused by this unnecessary delay. Similarly, "We have a letter dated as received by TCO on 27 May 2003 that states "Our eldest son has left school on the 16th May and will be going to Hull University in September"", which again shows that between 27th May 2003 and 22 Dec 2005 HMRC failed to "Update reported changes in circumstances within 30 days".
I'm sure you can find example after example of this. HMRC will attempt to foist the blame on you with their get-out clause of "claimant responsibilities" which they have only made expolicit way after the event, but either you will have complied with these through luck, or like most of us here, you can honestly state that you never knew you had to audit HMRC's "work" because you were never explicitly told. For me that would count under HMRC's responsibility "Give correct advice", because if they are not making quite clear a claimant's responsibilities from the outset, clearly they are changing the goalposts and NOT giving "correct advice"? They cannot argue that it should be intuitive to Tax Credit Casualties back in 2003 and 2004 to know HMRC as an organisation was largely (with individual exceptions I am sure, conscientious workers wanting to do right and hidebound by awful policies and draconian rules) a bunch of incompetent shysters covering their backs and needing continual auditing by ordinary people with jobs and responsibilities of their own. Without all the current publicity, our TCC and the benefit of hindsight, we know much more now, but nobody knew back then!
I would be inclined to write reminding HMRC of its latest incarnation of the ever-changing COP26 and that they were the ones supposedly deliveringb a service and the people you looked to for a degree of professionalism and accountability. Then I would sock it to them by listing all their errors and breaches of responsibility and at the bottom of the letter list the people you are "cc"ing it to. If you add your MP's name and 'Paula Dean, Tax Credit Casualties', it is possible that you may get somewhere.
Have you considered going to the media? This is often a great way to provoke an HMRC write-off as they hate the embarrassment and shame. It also brings in - as long as you mention www.taxCC.org and "Tax Credit Casualties" - lots more people and attention, and allows more people who were previously digging in their pockets because they believed HMRC's statement on their recovery letters along the lines of 'you have no right to appeal...' to be able to dispute recovery of their claims and get JUSTICE!!!
Good luck, Smudge! Splashin will help you, but I do think you've got the makings of a successful case there, if you just stick with it and don't let the bullies win.
Trinity: No one has ever done anything like this.
Neo: That's why it's going to work.
|
|
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 09:09:05
|
Thanks for that. You don't know how much of a boost that has given me. Letters will be sent...I don't know who will reply from TCO as I've had five different people already...I feel I should be invited to their christmas party as I'm in touch with so many of them.
Thanks again
Smudge |
|
|
|
Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2850 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2008 : 13:09:24
|
>>I don't know who will reply from TCO as I've had five different people already...<<
Write to Gordon Brown, Alastair Darling & Jane Kennedy too.
They probably won't reply, but it does mean that at a later date they can't say "we didn't know" ... (well they can & probably will, but you'll be in the happy position of being able to say "Oh yes you did you lying barstewards!!")
No nurse, I said "Are my test results back?" NOT "Are my testicles black?" .. but thanks anyway!! |
|
|
|
Smudge
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
29 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2008 : 09:01:13
|
On Thursday 11th we received a "notice to pay" letter from Cumbernauld for £116.72 for overpayment for period ending 31.08.2007. I'm assuming this is for us "not telling TCO" that our second son had left school....We did tell them and in plenty of time!!!
I immediatelt rang the TCO helpline and spoke to a lady called Jackie. She looked through our notes and confirmed in a matter of minutes that we are in DISPUTE about overpayments...something TCO have not confirmed in writing despite many requests over many many months!!
She also agreed that as per legislation, TCO should not recover or take action to recover etc etc.
So I have just wasted yet more of my time off writing letters to both Preston and Cumbernauld and copying them for my MP!!
Again it would seem the left hand (cumbernauld) doesn't know what the right hand (Preston) is doing!! |
|
|
|
Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2850 Posts |
Posted - 14/12/2008 : 13:47:00
|
I had this situation - but I was actually getting letters from them telling me that as I was in dispute, no further action would be taken wrt recovery proceedings shortly followed by Pay-up-or-else letters!!!
So far, you only seem to have Cumbernauld and Preston not knowing what each other is doing. I went for the hat trick and had Belfast hassling me too!!
In one of my many letters to them I wrote; "If incompetence were a sport, you lot would be winning gold medals at the Olympics."
No nurse, I said "Are my test results back?" NOT "Are my testicles black?" .. but thanks anyway!! |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Data Compliance
