| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
 Posted - 24/09/2008 : 17:35:13
|
Hello All
Where to start!
I've been involved with a dispute now with the HMCR for 5 months over an alleged over payment (£13,500).
They state that I earnt £16,438 for Tax Years 2006-2007 & 2007-2008.
During this time I was, and still am, a Student Nurse (earning very little!). They were informed of such in January 2006 and again in April 2006 - my earnings were to be £0 due to study!
It appears that a change took place in their system (allegedly at our instruction) in September 2006 informing them of said earnings! Unfortunately I never received a Final Award Notice for 2006-2007 or Provisional Award for 2007-2008 in 2007, both of which would have brought the error to light!!! Why we never received them I have no idea. However as our award was only £10 per week less for 07-08 than the previous year we assumed (wrongly?) that the reduction had been due to my wife’s earnings going from approx £5000 to £7500 - therefore never queried this! Had we received the paperwork it would have stood out that they actually had me earning!!!!
It begs the question why would my wife or I inform them in September 2006 of earnings of £16,438 when that would greatly reduce any award whilst still being a student! My wife simply confirmed that no changes in circumstances would take place for 07-08 and I fear that the system must have read £16,438 not £0 as a result of some IT or manual error!!!
I've played complaint tennis with them for 5 months now and I'm at my wits end, £13,500 FFS and I've still got 3 months study left!!!!!!
Sorry this is so long but I'm going out of my mind! Can anyone please advise or give me a ray of hope? 
|
Edited by - treach515 on 24/09/2008 18:23:43 |
|
|
auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician
United Kingdom
619 Posts |
Posted - 24/09/2008 : 21:53:10
|
Hello
Sorry to hear of your difficulties but welcome to the club nobody wants to join!
I'm not sure what to advise you as you seem to have gone some way down the dispute road already. However, I am not sure whether you have made a SARN request and got hold of all the information held about your claim by HMRC but if not this would be a good place to start. If you go to the main website www.taxcc.org and click on the dispute link it should lead you through the steps you need to take including making a SARN request. When you receive the paperwork much of it will look like gobbledegook but there are people on here who can help you to decipher it.
As you are getting nowhere by the sound of it, it would also be a good idea to contact your MP and reqeust that he/she takes up your case and demands some coherent answers from HMRC.
No doubt others will be along to help soon but hope this helps and good luck!
Auntie
"You can dress a pig in a suit but you can't stop it grunting" |
 |
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 17:54:18
|
| SARN request submitted! Sent for two, mine and the Mrs......so they can't delay us even further! Not sure if that's right but we'll probably end up with two copies which can't be a bad thing! |
|
|
|
samthe
Rank; Private Primate
188 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:05:23
|
If their system shows you as earning £16438 & this entry was made in Sept. 06 then they would have reduced the payments to you at that time. OR they SHOULD have done so. If they had reduced them then there would be no overpayment anyway. So we assume they didn't reduce them. So they made 2 errors - putting in fictitious income & then not amending the award. And then they didn't send you award notices. Sounds as if they (or the computer) totally loused up your records.
In principle all you have to do is to get them to accept that you did not have an income.
If the system shows you as having an income it should also show who you were working for - they always want to know this. So ask them who it was & then tell them you never worked there and that they must get the company to confirm this if they don't believe you. Point out all the above errors they have made as well. Do all this when you've got your SARN stuff and add anything relevant from that. |
|
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:14:13
|
The £16,438 is my final P45 figure from the company I left in January 2006 to go Nurse Training!!! The entry error was in September 2007 (sorry got a bit excited when typing......did I say excited, frustrated more like!!). I've sent them confirmation from the Uni of my attendance on a FULL TIME Nursing course but they seem to have overlooked this on appeal! I'm sure my previous company will confirm my leaving them to study and I also have my copy of the P45!!! Thanks for your comments, hopefully(!) we'll get there sometime soon!
The ironic thing is I think they owe me money for deductions for overpayments on my previous and current awards........not the other way round!!! |
Edited by - treach515 on 25/09/2008 21:15:22 |
|
|
|
Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 07:29:39
|
Hi Treach. I notice you say, "I've played complaint tennis with them for 5 months now and I'm at my wits end, £13,500 FFS and I've still got 3 months study left!!!!!!", but if you can learn to live with the uncertainty and frustration of this long-drawn-out dispute process, my own experience is that persistent and honest claimants do all eventually win. HMRC is banking on people being worn away, ground down, and thinking "s0d it, I can't fight this any more, I won't win, so I will just have to pay them back forever". Hence their two-speed action, which means that they recover at fantastic haste, bullying and threatening people, whilst they leave us hanging on a string for months on end for explanations, justifications and paperwork. Once we claimants can understand the nature of the games being played out, we know their tactics and don't let them wage this war of attrition. As Gabrielle sings, in a song which could well be the Tax Credit Casualties' theme tune (hoping I have remembered it right) - 'don't give up/don't give in/ don't you know that you must play to win.'
Do follow the guidance on www.taxCC.org , and with a little of your own individuality and flair added in tgo adapt things to your own circumstances, you will have the basis of your winning argument. Contact us or post here if you get stuck. Samthe has great help to give, and is already a great asset (along with others here) to this forum (thanks, Samthe!). Only yesterday I have received an email from someone saying he was ready to give up, but stuck it out and has now won and been vindicated. You can do this!
It's an ill wind that blows no-one any good, and if you can assert yourself against these HMRC bullies, this will stand you in good stead in the nursing world when you qualify, where you may often find yourself fighting a corner for your patient. The payback for me has been the steep learning curve about how corrupt administrations we trust in can be, and that even (or particularly?) a so-called Socialist government is untrustworthy as they come, with all their lies, denials and ostrich-like self-preserving behaviour. It has indeed been an incredible eye-opener, and one I will have in the front of my mind at the next election.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
|
|
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 08:42:08
|
Thank-you Ali! I'm not the sort to give in, in fact the more that I chew over the injustice of it and having read the horror stories on here the further my resolve strengthens!!! So long as my payments stay as they are now until I've quailified we'll be fine and then I'll fight them for years if needs be! Well if this is to be a marathon not a sprint I'd best get my running shoes on!
I've gone from a once staunch Labourite to the most cynical observer of merry-go-round politics! But thank-you for the site, it's refreshing to discover that such passionate, eager and caring people are still out there willing to help! |
|
|
|
missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 09:57:41
|
Have you received your final 2007-2008 award? What income did you put down for 2007-2008 when filling in your renewal form? if they have finalised on 16k incorrectly then you need to appeal this award notice (probably a late appeal now) not dispute it in my opinion.
How much of the overpayment is linked to 06-07 and how much to 07-08?
So your 2005-2006 income was 16k, and your household income for 06-07 was Nil? does your partner have any income? Did you continue to receive Working Tax Credit after you became a student?
MF |
Edited by - missfroy2 on 26/09/2008 10:03:05 |
|
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 14:43:55
|
2007-2008 was disputed as they sent two Final Award Notices (one each) mine said I'd earnt £0, my wife's said I'd earnt £16,438. As they never sent any documentation to us during 2007 I had no idea that they had my projected income as £16,438 for both years until 2008 documentation arrived - this was queried, appealed and disputed immidiatley! Overpayments for both years are approx £6,750 = £13,500.
Partners income was used for any further awards post 2005-2006. I received Working Tax Credit as a student, however as this was a joint award it should simply have been awarded to my wife instead.
I believe the error stems from an incorrect input of income in September 2007 when they said we informed them of my income being £16,438 (again!). No such conversation has ever taken place, why would it when we'd lose out! I've requested my SARN and this should(!) provide evidence as such!!! |
Edited by - treach515 on 26/09/2008 14:44:40 |
|
|
|
missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 16:23:43
|
What is the date on your final 2007-2008 award notice? It is just that you say that you have been disputing this for 5 months and I would have expected that you would have completed your renewal in the summer, with your final award somtime between June and August this year?
You need to appeal, not dispute. It is very important that you appeal the decision on each of the final award notices that are wrong, within the appeal time limits.
What is the date on your final 2006-2007?
What is odd to me is that, if HMRC claim that you gave them an income of 16k in Sept 2006, your 2007-2008 award would not have an overpayment due to income.
Your later post says it was September 2007 when HMRC were informed of the income, if so your payments during 07-08 should have fallen significantly.
MF
MF |
Edited by - missfroy2 on 26/09/2008 16:40:33 |
|
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 18:32:07
|
Final Award Notice for 2007-2008 is dated 5th May 2008. Renewal was done via telephone, as we've previously done.
We have disputed, then appealed and finally complained.
Initially to a CSSG Officer, then to a Senior CSSG Officer (who will be in touch early next week), so my final recourse will be the independant Adjudicator should my final appeal result in the same! Our payments fell by £10 (assumed this was due to wife earning slightly more than previous). As previously discussed they sent no communication to us at all for 2006-2007 other than a provisional in April 2006 - no Final Award Notice or provisional for 2007-2008. Had they done so the error would have been spotted sooner if it was ever apparent. This is my reason for such utter confusion!
I believe it's an IT error, soley their error and any monies stopped for overpayments in this award should be repaid to us! |
Edited by - treach515 on 26/09/2008 18:35:13 |
|
|
|
missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 18:52:53
|
The route you are following is the complaint route which will lead to the Adjudicator. That is not an appeal, that is a complaint. An appeal follows a different route, eventually leading to a social security tribunal. It is a legal route in statute, the Adjudicator route is for disputes and complaints - not the correct route for this from what you have said, although it will not hurt if it is in addition to an appeal. It might be a good idea to speak to someone like Taxaid, CAB etc...to make sure you get it onto the right track if this really is that HMRC have calculated your entitlement incorrectly.
I know I bang on about this, but people generally confuse disputes and appeals and whilst it could get the same result in the claimant's eyes they are legally very different processes.
So to summarise, you completed a renewal over the phone in April /May 08, presumably giving your 2007-2008 income correctly (nil for you, X for your wife) - HMRC have issued 2 award notices one to each of you - both showing different income figures but both for the same period - Is that right? - are the entitlement figures different on each? If one is showing Nil income for you and the other £16k then the entitlement figure and overpayment figure should be different.
I cannot stress enough that you should seek advice and make sure that you get this in as an appeal - not a dispute, not on a TC846 if indeed it turns out to be about entitlement.
MF2 |
|
|
|
treach515
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
7 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 19:52:35
|
Hi MF2
Sorry, thought I was heading in the right direction, least that's what they lead me to believe!
Ok. Yes we have two award notices both with different income figures for the same period. The entitlement figures differ immensley! Overpayment sections also differ from £13,595.04 (with income for 2006-2007 & 2007-2008) and £7959.58 (with income for 2006-2007)!!! Neither of which is correct either!!!
So it's the CAB on Tuesday for me I think for some further advice. How do I now turn this into an appeal or with CAB advise me of this?
Many Thanks
T |
|
|
|
missfroy2
Rank; Captain Gordon
236 Posts |
Posted - 26/09/2008 : 21:30:59
|
Just send a letter headed APPEAL to APPEALS TEAM, TCO, PRESTON, PR1 0SB. You need to state the decision you are appealing against, in your case I would photocopy both award notices to highlight the problem.
2006-2007 may be more of a problem for an appeal depending on the date your final notice for that year was issued. You only have 30 days from the date of notice, up to a further 12 months for a late appeal.
However, put it all in your appeal and hopefully whoever deals with it will see the mistake.
I think it is hit and miss with CAB, most are very good from my limited knowledge of them, but I guess it depends which one as to how much help they give. If not try someone like Taxaid.
It could turn out that it is something else that is wrong, but at least you will have safeguarded any potential appeal, sounds like you have disputes and complaints covered as well. No harm having all 3 looking at it.
Good luck with this.
MF |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Tax Credit Overpayment
