| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
cherryb
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
 Posted - 23/09/2008 : 17:57:53
|
hi anyone;original problem further down;but briefly tc are demanding 1500 pounds back from 2003,i have never recieved any letters requesting payment.it was never shown on an award notice.tc says they paid me by giro's, also 3months later they paid into my bank account again but never told me!...
i have checked statement; yes amount paid in as they said, but as i had not had payments since the tax year started in april o3 thought it was back pay} i did have giro 's in the following yr 2004march 04 when i left work due to depression. i remember they could not sort out payments ;i had 2 children and was desperate and had to have emergency payments down at the local tax office.i had no income,savings ;wages for 6 weeks .how can they prove that i have had giro 's when i have not!!!
i have send off for subject access request;but what defense do i put forward after this???/?
i made myself bancrupt in 2007 as i have had severe depression from 2004;and left work.
not sure if tax credits will allow me to include this in bancrupsy??after the fact- do you think i should phone them and ask?
feeling really down today ,crying.can anyone reassure there is hope on this?cannnot bare to be in debt again;dont think i could cope it made me so ill. sorry i am so depressing but its how it gets you.
|
|
|
samthe
Rank; Private Primate
188 Posts |
Posted - 23/09/2008 : 19:45:17
|
Please re-read para. 3 of my post of 9.9.08 on your previous thread. In essence, it is not for tax credits to say whether or not the debt can be included in the bankruptcy - it is a matter of fact and depends on when the debt "crystallised", which means when it was definite that you had a claim against you for the money. At the moment you just don't know when this was decided - you have heard nothing about it until recently but (knowing the incompetence tax credits sometimes display) the decision could well have been taken a long time ago.
You can be pretty sure that knowledge of the rules on this bankruptcy issue within Tax Credit Office will be quite limited so you may be successful if you write to them (recorded delivery; keep a copy) enclosing a copy of your bankruptcy order and discharge forms and telling them (don't ask - tell) that, as this alleged debt was incurred long before your bankruptcy it must be included in it. Then ask for confirmation that it will be written off accordingly. At the same time write to the OR who dealt with you. Tell him you have only recently had the letter from tax credits about this old debt. Send him a copy of the tax credit letters and of your letter to tax credits and ask him to confirm that the debt will be included in the bankruptcy.
This may not work if the decision on the debt was genuinely not made until recently, but in the circumstances you have nothing to lose by trying it.
However, also still go on with getting your SARN info. & do anything you can to check whether you ever were paid twice for the same period. Whatever happens, don't give up - go on & on through the complaints procedure. From what you say, it appears there was no way you could reasonably have known you were paid twice (if in fact you were) and the duplicate payments were tax credits fault, so you should not have to pay the money back anyway. Getting this accepted may be a long job so the bankruptcy route - if they accept it - would be a lot quicker. |
 |
|
|
cherryb
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
 Posted - 23/09/2008 : 22:13:26
|
thanks for prompt reply.i have telephoned them tonight and discussed these issues with them.They said that they had first indication of debt in 2004,and that they sent me a letter in june 04.I then said can i have a copie of letter?;then the adviser stuttered and said ''no i can not send you that ;but i will send you a copie of award notice for 04'' ;dodgy goings on eh???
Good advice ,will sent it to them anyway;as you all no they probably will just accept it {they are so dumm},and thats good for me.feel loads better ;they may be hope and as you say thats the quicker route ,cheers. |
|
|
|
samthe
Rank; Private Primate
188 Posts |
Posted - 25/09/2008 : 21:08:56
|
| Good - if they say they wrote to you about the alleged debt in 2004 & sent you an award notice showing it, then you are home and dry - it definitely goes into your bankruptcy. |
|
|
|
splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2008 : 22:53:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by cherryb
hi anyone;original problem further down;but briefly tc are demanding 1500 pounds back from 2003,i have never recieved any letters requesting payment.it was never shown on an award notice.tc says they paid me by giro's, also 3months later they paid into my bank account again but never told me!...
i have checked statement; yes amount paid in as they said, but as i had not had payments since the tax year started in april o3 thought it was back pay} i did have giro 's in the following yr 2004march 04 when i left work due to depression. i remember they could not sort out payments ;i had 2 children and was desperate and had to have emergency payments down at the local tax office.i had no income,savings ;wages for 6 weeks .how can they prove that i have had giro 's when i have not!!!
i have send off for subject access request;but what defense do i put forward after this???/?
i made myself bancrupt in 2007 as i have had severe depression from 2004;and left work.
not sure if tax credits will allow me to include this in bancrupsy??after the fact- do you think i should phone them and ask?
feeling really down today ,crying.can anyone reassure there is hope on this?cannnot bare to be in debt again;dont think i could cope it made me so ill. sorry i am so depressing but its how it gets you.
Hi cherryb
You must wait to get your SAR documents before beginning to put your case together.
I have seen this scenario many times before and yes I have also seen overpayments overturned successfully. Please keep us posted once they arrive, they will seem very confusing at first but I will be able to explain how you work through them, whilst you build a case.
Splashin |
|
|
|
cherryb
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2008 : 16:16:48
|
hi just recieved today data;as you said very confusing.what am i looking for please? the disc is missing on telephone calls;also letters of complaint{i have copies).
i sent off letter about bancrupsy but no data on that;what should i do now? |
|
|
|
splashin
Rank; Undercover HMRC Spy
Belize
446 Posts |
Posted - 13/10/2008 : 23:11:18
|
Cherryb
You need to look at the household notes, which are updated each time your claim is accessed. You need to find words like 'giros', incorrect postings. Also pay attention to the days your 2003-2004 years claim is for the full year 366 days, as 2003 was a leap year. As long as claims were received before 31st July 2003, you would be paid for the full year. Also on the pages which seem as though they repeat over and over again with details of the claim. ie. name address,children,income. Make notes of any dates received, start from, include from etc.
Keep us updated
   
Splashin |
|
|
|
cherryb
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 15:50:48
|
recieved phone call today .It makes me feel sick every time i speak to them .The stance at the moment is they feel that ; they probably will not allow the inclusion in my 07 bancrupsy as i was in a couple !EVEN THOUGH HE DID NOT WORK.MP HAS WRITTEN TO THEM.
the claim was joint so unless partner was bancrupt too at the same time .
ANY IDEAS NOW ANYONE????????? |
Edited by - cherryb on 04/11/2008 18:45:31 |
|
|
|
samthe
Rank; Private Primate
188 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 19:27:43
|
| Yes. You were bankrupt. Your liability for the debt is removed by that. Your partner's liability is not. They cannot continue to chase you for this. Go to your OR and ask them to write to Tax Crddits to set them straight on the law. |
|
|
|
samthe
Rank; Private Primate
188 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2008 : 19:41:19
|
Go here:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/ntcmanual/payment_opayments/ntc0780054.htm#5
It is Tax Credits own Manual of instructions about what to do in cases of bankruptcy. Look at note 1 under para. 7. It says that if there is a partner who is not bankrupt the overpayment can continue to be collected from the partner. The implication is clear - it cannot be collected from the bankrupt, & later stages of the procedure make it obvious that they "remit" - i.e. write off - any outstanding overpayment due from a bankrupt after discharge.
The only exception to this is in para. 8, which says that if a joint claim with the partner continues in payment they can continue to recover by deduction from it, because the liability of the partner means this is allowed. (I'm not sure whether you still have a joint claim, but suspect you don't.)
As well as, or instead of, going to the OR write to them - keep copy, recorded delivery - quoting this at them. If they don't back down take this info to your MP. |
|
|
|
cherryb
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 16:48:14
|
thanks so much for your quick reply will keep you posted so anyone else in this situation can be helped thanks.
|
|
|
|
cherryb
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
 Posted - 16/12/2008 : 11:27:38
|
[/b]hi anyone, further to previous threads
.i recieved an e-mail from MP secretary THIS MORNING ;''unless i can provide proof of points raised {WHAT POINTS!!!} and THERE is very little my MP can do!
do i want to them to arrange ameeting with a tax official to explain the decision to recover.''?
ARE THEY JUST PASSING THE BUCK ?AND CANNOT BE BOTHERED???;NEVER RECIEVED ANY EXPLAINATION AS TO WHAT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY DONE FOR ME!!.
HAS ANYONE ELSE THRASHED IT OUT WITH MP AND OFFICIALS?? IF SO IS IT WORTH DOING? ALSO HOW CAN I GET PROOF OF THE POINTS RAISED AS THEY HAVE NOT EXPLAINED THE DECISION WHAT THEY THINK I HAVE DONE WRONG;JUST PAY UP OR ELSE!!!!
ALSO MY DATA DISC NEVER ARRIVED: WOULD YOU SUGGEST AN APPOINTMENT WITH WELFARE RIGHTS? WOULD THEY TAKE IT ON?OR CAN I GET URTHER HELP FROM TCC.?
|
|
|
|
samthe
Rank; Private Primate
188 Posts |
Posted - 16/12/2008 : 17:42:28
|
1. Did your SARN request include paperwork as well as the CD? If not, do another one for the paperwork. The letter they told you they sent in 2004 is important because it crystallises the debt to a time before your bankruptcy. It should be provided under the SARN.
2. Chase them for the CD (& the paperwork if you have requested it but not had it).
3. Have you made a formal complaint in writing? If not do so. Provided what you were told about the date is correct the debt occurred before your bankruptcy and the reasons the overpayment occurred are irrelevant. Your complaint should be that you have told them about the bankruptcy, that they have told you the debt was incurred before the bankruptcy & that they wrote to you about it in 2004, that their own procedures provide for the debt to be written off on your discharge and that this has not been done. Send a copy of your discharge certificate. Keep a copy & send it recorded delivery. You can do this now, but include a statement that you have made a SARN request and are still waiting for the results, and may add more information when you get them.
4. If you feel you need help with this, see your local CAB or other welfare advice agency. Take them all the paperwork you have, & perhaps a print out of the posts on this thread. |
|
|
|
Sarah
Rank; Captain Gordon
247 Posts |
Posted - 17/12/2008 : 12:25:18
|
Hi CherryB
I'm guessing your MP is Labour? They are very recalcitrant to help as the party line is obviously that tax credits are great.
However, your MP is obliged to help you and you may need to point this out to your MP. If you need support I think there is somethin in our step by step dispute pack (www.taxcc.org) on MPs, or you can go look on the They Work for You website which I think has help on how to make your MP work for you. If you can't get any joy from your MP let Paula or myself know as we can then get you the advice you need to make a complaint about your MP.
Good luck and keep fighting.
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
already clear of bancrupsy a year;now in debt .
