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Ami
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
 Posted - 30/07/2008 : 21:09:35
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Hi, thought I should join as have been lurking for a while and using templates, Paula has also helped us in the past. My partner and I have 3 kids, both work full time and are currently disputing £11k. Have got to 3rd (highest tier) dispute with the usual rubbish they come up with. They made mistakes we should have known. Just sent huge parcel off to MP (Parmjit Dhanda - Gloucester) to get a 1 page reply saying we should go to Adjuticator. i could cry, so it's back to more letters and photocopying and for what??!!!!! Each time it's taking us weeks to do anything as it's sooo confusing, i cant speak to the helpline as they are awful and dont know what theyre on about (no continuity). We wont give up but I feel we are losing and the stress is affecting our life really badly, so looking for some moral support really. Wishing everyone good luck with their disputes also and be glad to hear from others
Cheers
Ami x
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician
United Kingdom
619 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2008 : 22:01:36
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You won't lose. Don't let the b*****s get you down. My dispute has been going on for two years now with no end in sight. I have given up worrying now and just write them a letter when I feel like it. They make me wait for ages for replies so why shouldn't I do the same!
You are certainly not alone as you can see from this forum. I believe this will be sorted soon what with all the recent media coverage, MPs now starting to raise the profile and other developments that we know of.
Best wishes
Auntie
"You can dress a pig in a suit but you can't stop it grunting" |
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TCC Webmaster
Da Purple one
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
129 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2008 : 22:04:37
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Hi Ami,
Although you won't give up your Dispute, don't let them take away your fight and wear you down. That's the way they work ... chip away with their great big hammers - a piece at a time.
Take a look at the Latest News on the main website (for 30th July)http://www.taxcc.org/News_TCC_Update.html - it might just give you a little boost.
Was there any indication why your MP just said to go to the Adjudicator? Or was it just the bare minimum of representation by yet another Labour MP?
The reason that I am asking is because I have been threatening to do a 'Name them & shame them' section on the website .... and your posting here has maybe bought it forward. I will be sending out another newsletter soon, so may ask the question of everyone - and publish the results on the website. If you prefer not to publish any details here, and want to reply to me, you can e-mail webmaster@taxcc.org.
No doubt, as usual, others will be along soon ...
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Ami
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2008 : 22:21:26
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Awww thanks for the positive replies, it's bloody exhausting fighting a faceless useless system! I did read that some Mps are campaigning to write overpayments off lately...I can only pray!! My Mp is funny (not ha ha)! he says he will help in his first letter so we thought great, but he obviously plays it safe. He said in his second (and final)letter he called the MP hotline and they advised we go to the adjudicator as in the last letter we recieved from HMRC highest disputes team, and that this procedure doesnt require a referral from an MP. In the last para he says he would assist in referring our complaint to the ombudsman but thats it. No acitve fight from him at all. I dont think he will tell us much more than we already know, I am quite tempted to write to david Cameron to raise this in Parliament as our alleged overpayment is massive. But each letter is knackering. I guess I will when I can get my head around this latest unhelpful fob off. The HMRC didnt change my income details on the first year dispute, then input my wages as £2k the following year, it took me a while to notice as I cant read the damn notices but I did everything I was supposed to, they have lost letters, not recorded calls and so on, dont know their arse from their elbow! I had twins so never knew what my payments should be from the outset but my crystal ball should have told me this!!!!
God I hate the Tc system! xx
Ami x |
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TCC Webmaster
Da Purple one
Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
129 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2008 : 22:48:09
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Thanks for the info Ami.
Hopefully others will comment on this, and verify what I'm saying!
The Adjudicator will only accept cases that have exhausted the HMRC dispute process, so if that is the case then your MP is right that the Adjudicator is the next step.
The step after that is the Ombudsman - and your MP has to refer you, you can't do it yourself. However, your MP can help a lot with the Ombudsman by writing comprehensively in support of your case - rather than just passing it on to the Ombudsman.
The thing you have to decide, maybe with the help of Paula or others, is whether you have really exhausted the HMRC route. Did you receive all your SAR data, or have HMRC witheld, or 'lost' some of it - usually, what is missing is just what you need to prove your case. So, do you have the proof that HMRC got it wrong?
If they haven't sent all your data, write to them stating what is missing and demanding ALL your data - and that because of this you are still in dispute with them. You may have already done this. If you still get no joy, write a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office http://www.ico.gov.uk/.
Also, it is always worthwhile going to the press with your story - then ringing your MP to tell them that you have gone to the press, and if they would like to comment they should ring the paper themselves. Forum member 'willow' did that one - retained her anonymity - and won. All MPs want good press!
Maybe you could list what has happened here - there is a wealth of experience on the forum, and others will be along to help ...
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Red Rocket
Rank; Captain Gordon
United Kingdom
223 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2008 : 22:48:24
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Hi Ami
We will win, it might take longer than we want, but it will happen.
Your MP's a T**t, its not about needing a referal its about him representing the people of his constituancy and seeing that justice is done. Lazy fool.
Red
" Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act. "
George Orwell |
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Ami
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 30/07/2008 : 23:04:15
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I will have a better look tomorrow eve, I think we have exhausted the HMRC hasve got SAR data but there are bits missing, have spoken to loads of different people and none of them seem to want to touch it bar the standard response we should have realised....Did get one letter saying HMRC did make mistakes, however we should have noticed. There is a lack of evidence on HMRCs part and we did take a while to notice mistakes but I also feel that we are the victims not fraudulent thieves, they obviously thrive on making you doubt yourself. I KNOW I gave the right info on time but cant prove it as the phone call is missing on data cd (as are others). The data entry mistake £2K wages is also there in black & white and they admit this but yes we should have noticed grrrr. So I am fighting their system for justice and they almost have me over a barrel as it is my word against their failing system. I asked them did they really think I would knowingly run up an £11k debt, noone will comment ...they disgust me at their contempt for their 'customers' (that have no rights). Do you know is the adjudicators decision legally binding?
I am miffed with MP but did wonder if he is within his rights at the mo, and wondered if i should keep him sweet. How did willow keep her anonyminity and go to the press - this is something I'd like to consider. I would happily give all my case details on here but it will take some time so not tonight.
Anyway am ranting, it feels good to talk to people who understand...thank you.
Webmaster I will send you some more details soon.
Im off to dream about beating the system, prob wake up in a cold sweat. thanks again xx
Ami x |
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Ali M-W
Da Tech(y ones)
3296 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2008 : 08:06:07
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Hi Ami. Reading about your experiences I am reliving my own feelings of anger, frustration, despair and complete bewilderment that my 'own' government could just stand by and let this kind of thing happen to the people who gave it its power, trusted in them, and the very people Nu Labour claim to support. In years to come you will look upon this as a revelation as to just how corrupt 'systems' can be, even in this 'green and pleasant' land of ours which we rarely see the failings of.
Casewise I am no expert and would advise you to talk to Paula, who is - it has to be said - getting busier all the time but will always get back to you. I just wanted to reassure you that the way you are currently feeling will pass. Just stay strong and motivated to win, and justice will surely find you in the end.
Remember, we are dealing with powerful, unaccountable incompetents and that is a dangerous combination. I see the clearest pattern from the people I see on the forum here, and speak to every day - "Who dares wins". Persistence is the key. HMRC try it on, and are classic playground bullies. To continue to fight them and not give in or lose heart is to eventually win.
My advice to you is to line up people on your side, and not to panic, but to pin HMRC down to exact reasons why they are not exercising their discretion and writing this off, and considering your arguments and evidence against those points. Usually there is a clear counter-argument, and anything else is just a diversion or a letting off of steam. Find out exactly why HMRC think you should repay - in other words, where they think you have been deficient - and then look for every bit of evidence which contradicts this and supports your view that actually you did everything an ordinary person would do and as much as they could expect from you. If you find this evidence, and enlist the help of others to drum it in to HMRC, you will win. When people do this, they have always won in the end.
Where you will surely lose is if you were dishonest or very negligent (which doesn't apply) or if you lose heart and throw in the towel. Most people who lose do so because they can see no end to the fight and give up. Sadly, giving up just plays into HMRC's hands, as they proceed to use the same tactics on others, and break them too.
I have yet to see this pattern bucked. Every determined and honest person I know, who is patient and sticks with it, eventually wins.
On the other hand, if you find the uncertainty and slow game impossible to live with, and don't believe in your heart of hearts that you will ever be fairly treated, you will surely end up repaying HMRC over many, many years. The choice and control is entirely yours, and we will support you the full way to victory.
Insist your MP pulls her or his finger out and does something constructive. Remember that they work for us! Fou us! As a constituent, you have the right to have your MP meet with you face to face, discuss your grievances to the point where (s)he properly understands them, and to write a strong letter in support of you. Even my Gordon Brown-loving, Tax Credit 'system' exonerating Nu Labour MP did this for me! If mine did, yours surely can.
The National newspapers and TV are now coming to us to find out what outrages we have to share with them, so there has also never been a better time to talk to the press. One man I know well has just got his victory after telling his story to the radio, local paper and Times. Prior to that he was hitting every brick wall there was. You know what you need to do. How much do you want to win?
(typos corrected)
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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Edited by - Ali M-W on 31/07/2008 08:08:30 |
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franners
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
40 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2008 : 19:28:46
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| Hi Ami Just thought I'd say don't quit! It's frustrating when you know you have made a call but can't find the evidence. This was what my entire dispute was based upon and every call was recorded apart from the one I actually needed. Things always seemed to be missing, evidence vanished, letters not received etc. I had all but given up when I found the evidence.I have now had my overpayment written off and am waiting for official written confirmation which I have harrassed my mp to demand immediately!!! Have told my mp what I want him to say and he has been fairly helpful although he too plays it safe! I too used to cry from frustration writing letter after letter but eventually I just saw it as part of the process of dealing with tcc. One end does not know what the other is doing and its infuriating but you will get there. Keep fighting! |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 31/07/2008 : 20:57:58
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Hello Ami
These MPs work for us & that includes you.
Therefore, you need to get your head around the fact that YOU are your MP's employer - YOU pay the piper and that means that YOU can call the tune!!
Don't ASK your MP to do something TELL him/her what you want him/her to do - just as you would with any other employee working for you.
If you're not happy with your MP's performance tell him/her & remind him/her that when it comes to voting time you will not be voting for him/her - and neither will any of your friends & family. Sack the useless bugger!!
You can also tell him/her that you are seriously thinking about going to the press with your problem and you will be mentioning to them just what your MP has or hasn't done for you , and would (s)he like to offer his/her side of the story to the press.
It's entirely up to you whether or not you do go to the press - I think you should - but there's no harm in making damn' sure that your MP believes that you will!!
You need to start fighting dirty if you want to succeed, and believe me you can & will.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon for Prime Minister!!" |
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Willow
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector
United Kingdom
56 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 11:38:09
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Hi Ami
My MP was far more helpful than your appears to be but even so, at the early stages he contacted Alistair Darling to complain about the TC system on our behalf. When I received the letter telling me this I immediqately fired off another, polite, letter to him thanking him for doing so and telling him that what I really wanted was for him to contact someone directly at TCO. So far as I know he went on to contact Richard Summersgill, and the matter was also passed on to Jane Kennedy at the Treasury. So as Alan says, TELL them what you want them to do. And if there's still no joy he'll have to go on that Name and Shame page!
Using the local media also helped us and as my partner didn't want everyone in the area to know our business I asked for anonymity in the story. As there is a lot of press interest at the moment it might be useful to contact at least your local paper if you're not confident to speak to someone at a National.
Keep your chin up and keep on going - it'll be worth it some day! x |
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Alan the Geordie
Da Purple one
2787 Posts |
Posted - 01/08/2008 : 11:45:15
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>>And if there's still no joy he'll have to go on that Name and Shame page!<<
I actually started a Name & Shame page on this forum some time ago. I wonder what happened to it?
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon for Prime Minister!!" |
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this may post twice - new to forum
