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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician


Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2008 :  02:29:25  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
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Tuesday, 5 February 2008
A Legacy of Failure and Fraud

When Gordon Brown is unceremoniously removed from office, at some unspecified date in the future, his lasting legacy that people will remember him by will be the fraud and errors that besmirch the HMRC tax credit system.

The Commons Public Accounts Committee reports today that fraud and error in the tax credit system is costing the taxpayer £1BN per annum.

Yet it seems that HMRC is standing idly by, and not lifting a finger to try to address the systems failings.

The committee says that, despite repeated criticism of the tax credits, HMRC has not yet put any targets in place to bring the level of fraud down.

Edward Leigh sums up the committee's contempt for HMRC:

"The tax credits situation is as serious as ever. HMRC's attempts to bring the system under any measure of control have so far not been crowned with conspicuous success."

Since 2003 £65BN has been paid in tax credits; of this, £6BN was overpaid in the first three years. At the end of 2007 HMRC had recouped £2BN of the overpayment, but written off £700m. It seems that £1.6BN of the £3.3BN outstanding will not be recovered.

To add to HMRC's catalogue of incompetence, the report notes that an estimated £135M a year has not been collected in income tax from 420,000 small pensions.

Brown must be feeling very proud of himself at the moment!

Tax does have to be taxing.

HMRC Is ****e (You must be logged in to see this link.) is brought to you by You must be logged in to see this link. "The Living Brand"

Posted by Ken at 10:09 0 comments



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Splashin



New link added..Robert

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2008 :  12:53:47  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Note how there is talk of 'fraud and error', often called 'claimant fraud and error' to pass responsibility to the claimant and away from HMRC. Yes, claimants make errors at times. Yes, some claimants dishonestly claim. Yet HMRC don't differentiate between fraud committed by their own workers and Jo(e) Public. They attribute all, or most, error to claimants. Yet actually it is HMRC making the errors, or HMRC making the system so complicated and difficult to manage that claimants can be tripped up into making 'errors'.

If you take a situation where the claimant declares a change in circumstance but HMRC don't action it, in all cases where the claimant is being asked to repay, HMRC has already decided it's the claimant's fault and they are in error!

Hence 'claimant error' hides a multitude of sins!

I could write an essay on this, but I won't. I will leave others to find out for themselves (there is loads on the 'home' website, You must be logged in to see this link. ). This is the major myth we have to debunk if the public is to see the situation as it really is. Reports like the one above, though critical of the system, don't do justice to where the problems actually lie... It's not actually our fault!!

(typo corrected)

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.

Edited by - Ali M-W on 06/04/2008 12:55:24
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familytaxcredit
Forum Admin



373 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  00:16:43  Show Profile Send familytaxcredit a Private Message
Gordon Brown has done a runner many times before, he is in plain english a w@nker. He robs the poor to get votes. In reality he is Tony Blairs luv child. He has no morals whatsoever. He is the pitts pure and simple, usa style politics. He knows full well his 10p abolition in tax rates will not harm his chances of re-erection.

The guy is a full weight bandit. He will not even enter into debate re-the tax credit mess. He avoids all, even the ombudsman. The guy is not fit to run a chip shop. Yet he says (re 10p) 'it will not affect lower paid workers, they can claim tax credits...**** me he's dodged again. This is the labour party today
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  00:24:50  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
To be fair to godon bleu, he is a full weight sh1t and don't know any better
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  02:44:35  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
It never augoured any good - an unelected Jabba the Hut who had, as his claim to fame, the tax credit fiasco - running the country.

And now his MPs are chained to him in their undies like so many Princess Leias.

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Robert
Admin



United Kingdom
829 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  10:26:48  Show Profile Send Robert a Private Message
has anyone seen an A19



Also, these really are manuals and they can be a very dull (and technical) read. There are however some fabulous pieces of information, for example what was “Official Error” is now called an “A19” - well who likes to admit they were wrong?



from here You must be logged in to see this link.


The truth is out there.. GO get it......Non Illigitamus Carborundum

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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  10:46:58  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
>> has anyone seen an A19 <<

Aye, I've seen an A19 - it's a dual carriageway road that bypasses *spit* Sunderland!

A brilliant piece of engineering and for which we are all grateful!

Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother?
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2008 :  08:02:15  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
I found this, but if you can understand it, you are cleverer than me...

You must be logged in to see this link.

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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familytaxcredit
Forum Admin



373 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2008 :  02:29:06  Show Profile Send familytaxcredit a Private Message
Ahh.. the code, similar to the da-vinci code. Basically it means you can make of it what you want. But ultimately it is not statute. Disassembly of the code is in the hands of hmrc, and their interpretation counts...in it?
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2008 :  07:19:57  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
HMRC's adversarial approach means they look for fraud, dishonesty and tax avoidance everywhere, and take the view that we are all on the fiddle and cannot be trusted. Here is one man's story - Nick Morgan's:

You must be logged in to see this link.


Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2008 :  07:23:19  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
This guy receives so many emails now from other HMRC victims that we are having trouble contacting him, but he can be emailed at: nickmorgan02@hotmail.com - for anyone who wants to give it a try again on our behalves. Please remember You must be logged in to see this link. - our main website.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

(typo corrected)

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.

Edited by - Ali M-W on 02/05/2008 07:24:00
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2008 :  10:21:29  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
>>The enemy of my enemy is my friend.<<

And a good enema is just what's needed at HMRC.


Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother?
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2008 :  04:40:41  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Going back to the beginning, who remembers the original 'Money with your name on it' campaign?

This is the tail-end of an older article, but it's striking how little has changed - because 'listening' Brown obviously has very selective hearing:

I was there at the launch of the tax credits scheme back in March 2003 - a rather jolly event at 11 Downing Street, attended by a multitude of journalists and a very smiley Dawn Primarolo, the Paymaster General, singing the praises of her new "baby". The "face" of tax credits was the TV presenter and "celebrity young mum" Gaby Roslin, and the scheme was then branded "Money2Mummy" because the credits were to be paid directly to the main carer (usually the mother).

The scheme was backed by a pounds 9m advertising campaign, and the claim to be "the biggest financial boost for mothers since the introduction of child benefit". But three years on, the picture is very different.

The saddest thing about all this is that tax credits, which were designed to lift low-income families out of poverty, have in many cases had quite the opposite effect. Some parents are even opting not to claim the money they are entitled to for fear of what might happen, preferring to stay clear of the scheme altogether

Mr Brown is struggling to restore the credibility of the scheme, but as experts such as Jane Moore from the Institute of Chartered Accountants in England and Wales warn, the short-term picture for tax credits still looks bleak.

Three years is a long time in anyone's book - and long enough, you would think, to make the changes required to achieve the balance between providing families with a stable income, and remaining responsive to changes in their circumstances.

All we can hope is that it doesn't take another three years to get it right.

An estimated pounds 2.2bn was overpaid for the second consecutive tax year

Some parents are now too afraid to claim the money they are entitled to

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Money2Mummy? More like Debt2Daddy, Misery2Mummy, etc.

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2008 :  09:47:38  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Maybe our 300+ members would like to copy the above into a letter to their MPs??

Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother?
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 10/05/2008 :  09:47:23  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
We can combat HMRC's failures, atrocities and miscarriage of blame for overpayments by all doing some relatively easy things to help this campaign - YOUR campaign:

You can:

1. Email the PM! You must be logged in to see this link. He is very unpopular and probably doesn't want Nu Labour to sink into oblivion and be shunned and despised by lifelong former voters. Maybe now he is less popular than Attilla the Hun he might just choose to listen to us?

2. sign the amnesty petition here You must be logged in to see this link. and let’s all get ten other people we know to do likewise! It's ridiculous how few have signed, given that two million of us get overpaid every year - and the only reason it's not signed by millions is that they don't know it exists! Let's put that right!

3. Make sure your MP knows not only that you are a victim, but that the whole system is gravely disliked by its victims and profoundly unjust. (S)he will not want to lose your vote and news will get back to the party, to influence policy. There is nothing like an obviously disgruntled electorate to motivate MPs. How to find your MP: You must be logged in to see this link.

You can cut and paste text from sample letters and ideas given here if you find it helpful. Your MPs need to know your views about these issues if anything is ever going to change.

4. View, enjoy and publicise our YouTube videos: You must be logged in to see this link.

It's a humourous way to spread the word and ridicule this vile system.

Thanks!


Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 17/05/2008 :  06:53:58  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
HMRC fail, we succeed... David beats Goliath? What a turn-up for the books!

Please help that happen:

The Tax Credit Casualties have received an Award Nomination! Please, if you feel we've helped you on You must be logged in to see this link. add a comment to our New Statesman Media award - Consumer Activism - on You must be logged in to see this link.

This would help us win and get TCC better known to help others...

Help us to help you!


Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 21/05/2008 :  06:57:05  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
42 comments so far, but we can do a lot better, especially if all our members here were to post a quick comment in support. Have we helped you fight or win your case? Has the website at You must be logged in to see this link. made the difference between hope and despair? If so, please take a moment to post a comment and help us scoop this prize and get the extra publicity we need to reach more people who may currently be in despair.

You must be logged in to see this link.

Thanks!



Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 15/12/2009 :  07:09:54  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Just as an aside, the Information Commissioner now has a lot more power to punish agencies and government departments which fail to keep our Personal Information secure. 2007's scapegoating just of the junior mail clerk who posted the 2 CDs containing sensitive data (millions of NI numbers and the names and addresses of countless children)using the cheapest method (regular slow post)would not be condoned now. Apparently the clerk was compliant with HMRC policy of that time and yet it is he who lost his job and not those whose rules he was following. Rough justice.

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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