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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 :  07:26:44  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
I think it all depends...

A bit of debate is healthy for an organisation. It shows that people recognise they aren't an homogenous bunch with absolutely identical views, beliefs, thoughts, wishes and opinions. It allows discussion, and sharing and merging of ideas. New ideas can be formulated and put to the test. Done well, with respect for each other and each others' opinions, it does no-one any harm - in my view.

But it's all about self-discipline and what happens if we can't/won't agree. What then? If we can agree to disagree in some respects, whilst being generally supportive to those views, values, principles etc. that we all hold in common, then there's no threat to our coherence as a group, and to the TCC. We thrash ideas out, we come to a majority view, we have a consensus, and just get on with what we are doing, and do it well.

I think there's only a danger if we start criticising each other, getting personal or dematory, splitting into factions, etc., etc. And I see no sign of that.

I think we just have to be aware what's at stake, and if any of us at any time has a fundamental difference of opinion which is unreconcilable, then I would hope we take those discussions out of this forum and elsewhere, until they are resolved or someone decides to go their separate way(s).

But so far we have always resolved things without internal wars, and I really do believe this will carry on, and we - the TCC - will go from strength to strength.

So relax...

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 :  07:29:49  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Those of us who are 'founding members' need only think about who we all are, where we come from, what our general views are, etc. to understand how different we all are - yet it has been working, it's working now, and it will always work - till we win our cases and get the system sorted out.



Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  01:05:16  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Resurgam thanks for the semi-thumbs-up -;
I do agree bickering is not good on this forum between ourselves. I'm a slightly taken back by the response/s. You are quite right to point out personal viewpoints against the whole big picture. But I can't see why it could be thought of as 'destructive' regards the forum/goals as a whole.

Lets face it, I'm quite willing to take on the government and hmrc with one hand. Yet with the other I've also to take on others whom disagree with English definitions of words. That is not meant to be a snide remark, though it probably seems that way.

There is no way whatsover I would aggree with 'private discussions on what amnesty means. There is no discussion as far as the dictionary goes, more to the point no discussion at all with the Brit public, they know what it means.

I would not delete this thread, no way.

At the risk of repeating myself 100 times, there is no way whatsoever any government would grant an amnesty. Campaigning on that front is fundamentely flawed. imho...but hey, I will go with the cause, just my thoughts
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  01:10:43  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Hi Red Rocket, yep natural law I have a very basic understanding. But unlike many here I have been to court. The judge told me to shut the **** up (some will not believe, but it is true)

The judge said shut the **** up, hmrc have the certificate of debt..no matter what you say or have in evidence will matter...pay em
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  02:34:33  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
There was no sign of any Natural Justice in your travesty of a court case, Sammy, but the principle is certainly in keeping with the Magna Carta and Human Rights. What about something like: 'Natural Justice demands a write-off'? I do like the Natural Justice principle (thanks, Red Rocket!).

Regarding the whole concept of 'sympathetic MPs', which is how this thread started life - it seems that Brown is saying, 'Comply or Die' to his dissenting MPs, so that would seem to scarper that. Perhaps the Grand National winner was an omen?

Are we flogging a dead horse, do you think (pardon the pun) trying to get Nu Labour MPs on board?

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  17:44:32  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
>>Are we flogging a dead horse, do you think (pardon the pun) trying to get Nu Labour MPs on board?<<

Yes!!

Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother?
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n/a
deleted



223 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  20:53:00  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Reported on radio 4 this morning that a growing number of back bench MP's are becoming rebelious over scrapping of 10% rate on income tax.
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PJD
Admin



United Kingdom
281 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  22:36:45  Show Profile Send PJD a Private Message
These days we usually use the phrase, “write off of all non fraudulent overpayments” in discussions and articles but as you can see it’s not very catchy.

‘Justice is an Amnesty’ is something I came up with in the very early days, (in response to the reportage of the write off / amnesty the Australian government gave their victims.) When I was pretty much working on my own and still had a lot of learning to do on many things. I haven’t always got things right, and I have always appreciated and looked for input and comment on anything and everything we do.

I find the forum very useful in the fact that enables people to do just that. I would never seek to shut down discussion on issues people want to discuss, and have already suggested we have a public thread and a poll on the matter.

I don’t get on the forum very much due the sheer volume of emails and calls I get, and the fact that as we all know, a forum can suck hours away without you even noticing. I also have concerns about what can happen on forums. I have seen several organisations descend in to back biting and in fighting purely because it is all too easy to post a comment in haste or for posts to be taken the wrong way.

We all have very different politics and opinions and I think we have done incredibly well to come as far as we have. But we do have to realise we are working as a group here. I personally wouldn’t trust most politicians as far as I could throw them, and have to exercise as much restraint as possible when confronted with middle class know it alls who until I represented 9 million families (read; voters) wouldn’t give me the time of day. But this isn’t about my politics and I have to accept that.

I’m lucky in that I work as a youth and community worker and have trained with some of the best around. Daily I am reminded, and proved the benefit of, the fact that everyone has their own opinions and the right to air them (although there are some obvious ones that we would not condone being aired here).

We have over 300 members on the forum, I am in contact with at least 500 hundred others and we have had over 50,000 hits on the website. So there are quite a few peoples opinions to take in too account and a hell of a lot to be doing. While there is a core group of us that do the organising etc (those that volunteer to do it, not cherry picked or anything) there are matters that ‘general members’ (as I like to call them) can raise, action and discuss themselves.

But please understand that most of the time there is a hell of a lot going on behind the scenes. The group emails I send out (to anyone who wishes to be on the mailing list) contain most, but not all of our current plans (I used to get told off for overloading people with too much information and have also learnt not to count all my chickens before they have hatched) currently we are still wrapping up the previous meetings, planning a public meeting in Westminster, pursuing legal action, helping newbie’s and existing victims, training, liaising with unions and media, continually updating and improving the website, and researching tax law, so some things have to go on a back burner until we can focus on them or until some else takes the lead on the issue in a way that is open and workable.

Until we know that enough people object to the use of the word and can come up with a replacement there is not a lot we can be doing about it. TCC have always had to work with what we have got.
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n/a
deleted



223 Posts

Posted - 07/04/2008 :  22:48:59  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Fair play PJD. I can't imagine the hours that you and the other main members have put in to get this far, so big hats off.
I notice the hits are going up nicely, is the petition going at the same rate ? Can we set up the website/admin so we can issue (via e-mail) a couple of reminders to newbies to sign the petition, or direct them more often in its direction.

A bird in the hand, does it on your wrist.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2008 :  08:38:20  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
The petition could do with a helping hand. Any ideas, Red Rocket?

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2008 :  22:46:35  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Nu labour mp's are on 70k per year. (besides their fiddles#) They do not live in our world. They are corrupt. And has been proven many times. They do not represent me and you. How much proof does the brit public need?
The 10p abolition is another attack on the low paid, it is absolute scandalous, yet no outcry (a few whimpers maybe )

Your cleaner will now pay much more tax than you.. words escape me..

I'm at a loss, because the tories and libs are no better, I have no alternative vote.
Which of course is a remedy for disaster, the bnp will gain ground in local elections. I don't expect they will win many seats on councils this time round, but they are cutting into mainstream usual voters.

The government don't give a ****...they will in a few years from now.

Gordon Brown is a clown and will be proved so eventually

Edited by - sammy on 08/04/2008 22:48:49
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2008 :  22:55:10  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
I think the time is right to outlaw labour mp's. They are not on our side. It should be a deleberate method...hey you, get ****ed..I don't want you'r ****...etc

labour mp's hate 'normal people hating them'...

(I would crusade on this, **** off labour mp you aint doing nothing for me
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2008 :  23:00:17  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
A lot of stuff got **** above. Basically a labour mp dont give 2****$ about you. He simply follows the whip and party line. He/she does not give 2fux/ so long as he/she carries the party lie
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familytaxcredit
Forum Admin



373 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2008 :  00:30:39  Show Profile Send familytaxcredit a Private Message
oops, anyhow pj it's not easy pleasing all. You have done a great job for awareness alone. Well done!

I won't mention my personal thoughts again and am sorry for causing a mini debate. We are all in it up to our shoulders and thats enough, we are all in the same boat. (though i don't want letting off) ok, ok the very last dig !
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n/a
deleted



223 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2008 :  00:41:37  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
But between that we shall weave, and it might not be because we are agreed with, but because of consequence, we find ourselves upon common ground and others vested interest may be paralled with our own.

John Emerich Edward Dalberg Acton: Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely


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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2008 :  06:45:24  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Well said, Red Rocket. What an eloquent and well-read soul you are, and I'm glad you're on board. When we get our date for Westminster, I hope you'll join us. All welcome - and please keep your short case summaries coming!

Morpheus: … as long as there is a single breath in his body he'll never give up… and neither can we.
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n/a
deleted



223 Posts

Posted - 09/04/2008 :  20:24:36  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
I will certainly do my best to be there.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 13/02/2010 :  08:09:51  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Diane Abbott is a rarity - a Labour MP with a conscience on tax credit injustices:

I want to flag up the issue of old tax credit overpayment debts. Citizens Advice continues to be concerned nationally about the continuing hardship and stress of people who are still repaying tax credits that were overpaid during the first two years of the system's operation. Next year's pre-Budget report will be an opportunity for the Government to deal with the problem of tax credit overpayment. We all know the problems with the system. People who are entitled to tax credits are frightened off from claiming them because they have heard of people who are harassed and burdened with a debt that is not really of their making.

Members of Parliament and Citizens Advice know that the standard of administration of tax credits was very poor in the first two years of the system-a fact that the Government have acknowledged. In addition, the level of support that is now available to help people with their claims was not available in the first two years. It is wrong that claimants with overpayment debts dating back to 2003-04 or 2004-05 should still be struggling to establish the extent of and reason for their debt, and to repay the balance, which forces them further into debt.

The efforts of Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs to write off more old tax credit overpayment debt are welcome, but more needs to be done.

You must be logged in to see this link.

I hope she keeps her seat. If your own Labour MP hasn't helped and isn't pressing Brown for reform, please quote Diane's view to her/him and see if we can't get Labour to clean up its act.

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 10/04/2010 :  10:27:44  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Here are the responses Tax Credit Casualties got from the Lib Dems, Conservatives and Labour Parties, which we have published to help you make up your minds where to place your valuable vote:

You must be logged in to see this link.

If you aren't entirely happy with your chosen Party's stance - please,PLEASE get on to them and TELL THEM! We still have time to get TAX CREDIT INJUSTICES on the GENERAL ELECTION AGENDA, and to persuade our political hopefuls to speak up publicly about this issue and what they intend to do if they and their party are elected! TAX CREDIT CASUALTIES ACTIVE MEMBERS CANNOT DO THIS WITHOUT YOU! I believe we have offered our members (and we are all unpaid volunteers doing this from conviction and the pursuit of justice for everyone)everything you need to complete the job yourselves! The saying goes something along the lines of, for evil to succeed, all it takes is for good people to do nothing. The choice - to do something or to do nothing - is now yours, now all of ours. Let's shape the future by lobbying our political representatives and voting only for those committed to improving our lives.

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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