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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician


690 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  10:17:47  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Published: 07 December 2007
Freedom Of Information: Government's refusal to disclose legal advice challenged in court
James Kessler QC

Mr Kessler is exercised by what he alleges is a denial of a fair trial because the Tribunal allowed Customs to submit evidence in support of their arguments in a closed session which he was unable to challenge.

Mr Kessler says the Information Tribunal's decision sets a dangerous precedent and could pave the way for HMRC to submit secret evidence in other cases, which would make it much harder for taxpayers to question HMRC's decisions. He said:
-----


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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 07/12/2007 :  13:30:48  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Welcome to Nazi Britain.

When, I wonder, will HMRC do the honest thing and rename itself The Gestaopo for that - in my view - is exactly what it is in all but name!

Geordie: Worbairn's hacky mucky.
English: The baby needs a wash.

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Ali M-W
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3558 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2007 :  09:15:22  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
We really should all write to our MPs about this.

Am I right in thinking that the Nazi party were actually Socialists? And didn't they issue the population ID cards?

Machine god: WHAT IF YOU FAIL?
Neo: I won't

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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 09/12/2007 :  14:34:13  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W

We really should all write to our MPs about this.

Am I right in thinking that the Nazi party were actually Socialists? And didn't they issue the population ID cards?

Machine god: WHAT IF YOU FAIL?
Neo: I won't





Yes, and that is exactly my point.

Geordie: Worbairn's hacky mucky.
English: The baby needs a wash.

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Ali M-W
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3558 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  08:30:31  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
They portray Gordon Brown as a jackboot in cartoons often, don't they? Or a Clunking Fist. Or Mr Bean. I think the latter is too benign. He may appear daft and bungling, but he's actually very clever at avoiding the consequences of his incompetence, and passing it off to others, such as ourselves.

Machine god: WHAT IF YOU FAIL?
Neo: I won't

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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 10/12/2007 :  12:30:31  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W

They portray Gordon Brown as a jackboot in cartoons often, don't they? Or a Clunking Fist. Or Mr Bean. I think the latter is too benign. He may appear daft and bungling, but he's actually very clever at avoiding the consequences of his incompetence, and passing it off to others, such as ourselves.

Machine god: WHAT IF YOU FAIL?
Neo: I won't





Hitler made an art form of that too.

Geordie: Worbairn's hacky mucky.
English: The baby needs a wash.

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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2007 :  11:42:16  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
LATEST

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Splashin
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Ali M-W
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3558 Posts

Posted - 25/01/2008 :  08:04:02  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
I never got that link of Splashin's to work, btw...

Although adopting a wordy, legal text style rather than everyday Plain English (probably because accessible and legal don't go together), I do think Martin from ICHOR Trust might be onto something with the text he prepared for us on another thread.

Perhaps Martin or someone else could post it here, in case anyone comes looking in this place?

Oracle: What do all men with power want? More power.

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 09/02/2008 :  09:00:24  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Working on the basis that an effective campaign uses all its members and doesn't just have a few doing all the work, and the rest left out in the cold, I would like to invite interested members of the Club That No-one Wanted To Join (aka the TCC) to take on a few jobs!

I've been given this telephone number as a National Helpline number for the Community Legal Service, if anyone wants to ring it: 0845 345 4 345

Some questions we might want to ask:

Apparently, there is a little-known piece of case law whereby a judge can set aside a Certificate of Debt (these are what HMRC produce when they take is to court, to prove we owe them even when we know we don't, and no-one seems able to challenge this)because the defendant was treated unfairly and didn't know their rights.

What are claimants' rights when taken to court (often prematurely, ie. before they have even had a chance to dispute recovery of an overpayment)in this way?

Is a Certificate of Debt truly unanswerable?

Do claimants have any recourse to presenting their own case in defence?

What about those who were denied this at the time?



Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is…the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
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Ali M-W
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3558 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2008 :  07:52:25  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Don't forget, if you're co-ordinating a regional meeting, to see if you have a local Community Legal Service in your area who can send a speaker/advisor!

0845 345 4 345 is the National helpline number.

Morpheus: The Matrix is everywhere. It is…the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  12:11:15  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
I'm happy to see others are now aware of hmrc unfair practice (re-itv programme last night) particularly in court.

I've had a hard job persuading some people that hmrc are indeed judge and jury. Some find it difficult to believe that this can happen.

If I could inform newcomers to this forum;
The judge said to me 'Mr xxxx, hmrc have the certificate of debt, nothing you say or have will make any difference,'I'm sorry'

This was the second hearing, the first hearing was adjourned because hmrc did not have all 'facts together' I was not allowed to object to the adjournment. Remember it was hmrc whom took me to court, 3-years down the line they still did not have facts together yet a further 6-weeks adjournment was granted without question.

It was later I discovered that these 'facts' was in fact a simple document 'certificate of debt' that could be presented to the judge.

My argument was never heard nor even asked for in court.
I was aslo denied access to a duty solicitor.




When the principles of justice become inconvenient, they are easily forgotten. To decide a case fairly, a judge must hear both sides of the argument and each side must know the arguments that the other has made. This might seem obvious. "I cannot at the moment visualise any circumstances", said Lord Donaldson the former Master of the Rolls, "in which it would be right to give a judge information not disclosed to the other side." That was how it seemed in 1983.

The Human Rights Act affirms the "right to a fair hearing". And a fair hearing, according to the European Court of Human Rights, demands that each party must hear all the evidence and arguments from the other side. There are exceptions borne of necessity national security may make disclosure impossible. But these are rare and extreme cases.
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Edited by - sammy on 11/03/2008 12:13:39
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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  14:53:03  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
>>There are exceptions borne of necessity national security may make disclosure impossible. But these are rare and extreme cases. >>

Maybe they think you're some kind of terrorist?? ;)

Geordie: "Alreet, de ye fancy a Broon?"

English: "Hello, fancy coming for a drink?"
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  20:08:50  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Of course he is - even his Avatar has a bandanna!

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.


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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  20:09:26  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
...or are they shades?

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.


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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  20:10:09  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
...it looks mean, anyway.

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.


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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  21:34:00  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
They're all mean from Yorkshire.

They have a motto and it's this;

"Hear all, see all say 'nowt.

Eat all, sup all & pay 'nowt.

And if ever thou does 'owt for 'nowt, see that tha does it for thersen!"

You see, I really am multi-lingual; I speak Geordie, Yorkshire and Gibberish (should be handy if ever I visit Gibraltar) with equal ease and fluency!

(now if only I could learn the Barnacle Bill language of Portsmouth & places thereabouts.....)

Geordie: "Alreet, de ye fancy a Broon?"

English: "Hello, fancy coming for a drink?"

Edited by - Alan the Geordie on 11/03/2008 21:40:50
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2008 :  23:07:04  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
>>even his Avatar has a bandanna!<< Lol, that's a bandage needed after banging head against several walls
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 13/03/2008 :  00:14:00  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Just the one? If I'd been through half what you had at HMRC's hands, I would be mummified by now.

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.


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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 13/03/2008 :  00:15:16  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
You are a mummy aren't you??

Apathy rules OK - so why do I bother?
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2008 :  00:27:42  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Yes, and more crusty than yummy. But moving swiftly on - has anyone had a court threat as the first sign anything was wrong? I know that there were a lot of these cases at one time.

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.


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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 22/03/2008 :  06:01:56  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Premature court action and threats as a first, rather than so-called last, resort for bullying HMRC is going to be one of the questions the Portsmouth News is putting to HMRC as we have our first 'Cleaning up the Tax Credit Mess' public meeting in Portsmouth this afternoon. Don't hold your breath on any answer, but we are trying... watch this space!

Morpheus: Welcome to the real world.


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