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18 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  00:31:04  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
hi i claim tax credits and someone has managed to ring up hmrc and change my bank details and put on my claim i am working wen i am not. hmrc has stopped all my payments and will not tell me anything about my claim i do not no how to solve this any advise?

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Alan the Geordie
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3032 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  01:06:04  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by keisha07

hi i claim tax credits and someone has managed to ring up hmrc and change my bank details and put on my claim i am working wen i am not. hmrc has stopped all my payments and will not tell me anything about my claim i do not no how to solve this any advise?



Hello Keisha

The first thing I would do would be to go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau and tell them what has happened.

It seems that what has happened to you has happened to others, and the CAB will be aware of it.

Ask them to act on your behalf with the Tax Credits office.

Now, that's the first barrel of your gun loaded! The CAB will from then on have a record of your case, and of their attempts to sort it out on your behalf, and their notes etc. could be useful later on.

The next thing to do is to get copies of all the stuff that HMRC Tax Credits have about you, and this will be loads of paperwork and recordings on CD's of any telephone conversations that you have had with them.

By law, HMRC Tax Credits have to let you have these things, and you get them by making a SARN Request.

Use this link; You must be logged in to see this link. to take you to the relevant page of our main site, and scroll down to here; 3) Claim you data.

Next, go here; You must be logged in to see this link.

and use this to find the name of your MP and write to him / her telling him / her what has happened just as you have told us here, and ask for his / her help. This will be the second barrel of your gun!

Finally - for just now anyway - Load the third barrel of your gun! Get in touch with this bloke; James Coney, Deputy Business Editor, Daily Mirror, who can be contacted on: 0207 293 3030, or by email at james.coney@mirror.co.uk

The Mirror have written an article already on the Tax Credit Fiasco, and will shortly be writing another. Your story will help them with that, and, in turn their involvement will help you.

Please understand that I'm not "fobbing you off" here, we cannot take-on your case and fight it for you - we can only advise on what we've found to work for us, and I'm pleased to be able to say that I won my case against them.

As time goes on, you'll find other members of the forum will be posting their advice too, and it will be all useful stuff. You have friends here and we'll all do our very best to support and advise you.

Don't despair, you're not alone, and you can win this

Have a good browse around this forum, and our main site (from this link; You must be logged in to see this link.)

That's enough to get you going. Work your way through all I've suggested and keep us updated.

Don't forget we're here to answer any questions and help you.

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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18 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  01:13:20  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Thank you very much for your reply i have taken all your advice and will be on it first thing in the morning i thought i was alone i have been having sleepless nights since this whole thing started i have written to my local mp already im waitimg for a response i will be going to my local CAB first thing in the morning thanks again.
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  01:20:19  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Hi keisha07 if 'you' are claiming tax credits and you are not working I don't think you can claim, only the working partner can claim.

If you are talking about a joint claim, request they send you a copy of the original form you filled in. I don't know how they could change your bank details, to change them they would need to know your original details..how would they know?
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  01:20:47  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Right Lads 'n' Lasses,

Since I made the above post re; Keisha's story of her claim being fraudulently hijacked, I got thinking, and it did hurt a bit!

I am thinking that Fraud is a criminal offence, and the people you go to when an offence has been committed is the police.

Since Keisha has become the victim of this fraud, do you thing that there's any mileage in her reporting it to the police?

If nothing else, the story could be sent to the press who may run with it along the lines of "Police Investigate Fraud at HMRC"

It just may give Gordon Clown another sleepless night!

It's just a thought!

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  01:31:35  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Yes it is fraud, no doubt in my mind. It needs reporting to the police.
keisha07, if you are unsure how to do this yourself,
send me a PM email with your real name and address phone number, and I will report it for you.
The police will contact you later.
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n/a
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18 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  02:23:27  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
hi sammy i have a 7 month old baby so i have been getting child tax credit since she was born. someone managed to ring in pass all the security questions change my bank details and information in my claim. tax office has paid that person over 1000 and stopped all my payments saying they are investigating. When i ring up they say they can not tell me anything regarding my claim I really believe this is an inside job because they ask so many questions when you phone no one knows that much infomation about me.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  07:17:32  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by keisha07

hi sammy i have a 7 month old baby so i have been getting child tax credit since she was born. someone managed to ring in pass all the security questions change my bank details and information in my claim. tax office has paid that person over 1000 and stopped all my payments saying they are investigating. When i ring up they say they can not tell me anything regarding my claim I really believe this is an inside job because they ask so many questions when you phone no one knows that much infomation about me.



Keisha07 - what a coincidence: I am posting something today on another thread from an HMRC WHISTLEBLOWER which you will, I am sure, be interested in.

My informant tells me that fraud has been rife within the tax credit system, and all those affected are people already known to the Tax Credit Office, who have submitted an application for tax credits and either received an award or got refused. My informant is convinced that this is an inside job, and that it's not down to gangs of opportunistic outsiders, but people who can access the system, know how claims are set up, and can mess with your details so that THEY get the money. HMRC only see the money leaving them - they don't seem to care about where it ends up.

Why don't you ask our ever-helpful resident welfare rights advisor what she'd advise claimants to do in your situation (sorry Splashin!). Failing that, I could try going back to my source and see what they recommend. If it were me, I'd go to my bank, explain the situation, and ask for free copies of all relevant bank statements, which I'm sure they would do under the circumstances, and DEMAND that HMRC marry up the payments they claim to have sent you with the sums you actually got. Then make them account for where the rest of that money went, for if my informant's story is true (which I have no reason to doubt and believe 100%) they spend far more time and effort chasing innocent claimants to meet targets than they do to put fraudsters in jail where they belong.

You must get help with this. I'd suggest Citizens Advice and the Low Incomes Tax Reform Group. Please give Paula a ring, too. She can be contacted via the main website. Not only will she give you moral support and try to point you in the right direction, but she needs to know how rife fraud is within the system so that our group can hammer home to this apology of a government, and its henchmen (HMRC) that our members are suffering and action must be taken NOW.

Take care, we will all support you here as best we can. Ali.

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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chrisp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



98 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  09:18:22  Show Profile Send chrisp a Private Message
Ring or go to your local Police station, report this as a fraud an suspected identity theft. Get a crime number (essential) then write to HMRC your complaint and quote that crime number, send it registered post.

I will tell you how I think someone else has your details, I was sent 2 letters which were correctly addressed to me for overpayments for 2003-4 2005-6. Although my name was at the top of the letter they both contained all the personal details of someone else. If I was so inclined it wouldn't be hard to assume this person's identity. To highten my concern this person is Polish and has a UK National Insurance Number and is supposed to have lived at my address for 8 years but is now dead or so they have told me. They must have worked nights as I never met them.

What concerns me and I cannot get an answer out of them on this point despite months of trying is have my deails gone out to someone else, could I be at risk of identity theft and fraud due to their complete lack of care and breach of trust? I discussed this with my bank when it happened and they have kindly changed all my account details but yet again it has cost me financially to try to minimise the effect of their incompetance on my life.
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18 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  14:29:42  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
hi Everybody i was just wondering does anyone no how long these things take to be resolved and do they ever get resolved. I am really worried because i recieved a letter from tax credits last week and it had someones bank details on it and the name of the bank. I live in london and i managed to do a search online to trace the number of the bank and it was traced to a bank outside london i rang up the bank and told them my situation and quoted the sort code and account number and they refused to give me any information it got me thinking maybe these inside people have links in the banks too.
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chrisp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



98 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  19:58:35  Show Profile Send chrisp a Private Message
Standard practise for banks, they will not release details of someone's account. That is why you go to the police and report it, if you can get them interested they can follow it up and get the Bank to disclose all the account details, may take a warrant but it can be done especially in fraud cases.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  20:11:44  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chrisp

Standard practise for banks, they will not release details of someone's account. That is why you go to the police and report it, if you can get them interested they can follow it up and get the Bank to disclose all the account details, may take a warrant but it can be done especially in fraud cases.



The police may or may not be interested, but I'm sure the Press would.

Contact James Coney, Deputy Business Editor, Daily Mirror. He can be contacted on: 0207 293 3030, or by email at james.coney@mirror.co.uk

He's very interested in the Tax Credit Fiasco just now.

Also, get yourself along to your local Citizens Advice Bureau, and don't forget to make an appointment to see your Bank Manager too.

You asked how long it can take to get these things sorted-out and I'm sorry to tell you that you can expect it to take many months, or even years.

We are talking about HMRC here!

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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Edited by - Alan the Geordie on 24/09/2007 20:14:39
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician



United Kingdom
625 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  20:54:02  Show Profile Send auntieh a Private Message
I worked in banks and building societies in a previous life and yes you must report it to the polie immediately as it appears a crime has been committed. You might think it is up to HMRC to report it but banks work in exactly the same way - they expect the customer to report any crime. fraud etc relating to their accounts to the police. However, it would be extraordinary if even an outfit as incompetent as HMRC did not have a department that deals with suspected bank fraud and it must be them who are investigating this matter. They should have arrangements with their own bank to put a forward trace on money transferred to other bank accounts. I suspect that the bank details you have been sent must relate to the fraud and you should give these details to the police. It is harsh of HMRC to refuse to discuss your case with you but I suspect this is because they are aware a fraud has happened and are covering themselves. Also they don't generally do sympathy as we know. Maybe it would be worth insisting on talking to a manager if you can't get anywhere with the helpline advisor as I have found that they are sometimes more helpful.

It is vital that you get your own situation sorted out pronto by whatever means available before concerning yourself about the wider picture of how often does this happen, who is doing it, are there are accomplices in banks etc? It's possible but there are some extremely sophisticated criminals out there these days who really don't need any help from bank staff and probably not from most HMRC employees either. There are sometimes cases where insiders are implicated but in my experience these tend to be rare and it is often bank staff who are the ones who spot fraudsters - done it myself two or three times! Anyway all these questions are for the wider arenas such as Ali's ongoing dialogue with HMRC, CAB interaction with HMRC,etc.
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 24/09/2007 :  21:03:19  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by keisha07

hi Everybody i was just wondering does anyone no how long these things take to be resolved and do they ever get resolved. I am really worried because i recieved a letter from tax credits last week and it had someones bank details on it and the name of the bank. I live in london and i managed to do a search online to trace the number of the bank and it was traced to a bank outside london i rang up the bank and told them my situation and quoted the sort code and account number and they refused to give me any information it got me thinking maybe these inside people have links in the banks too.


Keisha
I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread with about fraud and who's too blame??? Include the sort code (not account No.)these payments were sent too and then this will be added to be by others who have been also effected by this fraud. If we show the HMRC how easy it can be to compile records of certain fraudulent claims, it will say how uninterested they are in actually discovering their own shear incompetence. This will then give us more grounds to fight these injustices !!!!!!!

Splashin
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chrisp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



98 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2007 :  00:04:43  Show Profile Send chrisp a Private Message
Perhaps it would be as well to realise that HMRC, Customs, have far more powers to investigate financial matters than the police. It is actually easier for them to get financial details from a bank than it is for the Police. Under PACE, Police and Criminal Evidence Act there is a limit to how long a person can be detained for questioning. Ask a Customs officer how long they can hold you without charge, you will get a shock. Police swear to protect persons and property and to prevent and detect crime. Customs and Revenue are concerned with MONEY and TAXES, no mention of people, protection or welfare in their brief.

You can see this in action with their Certificate of Debt. Present it in court, however flawed it may be and there is one result. Police bring you to court and at least you get the chance to argue your side.

Real easy for HMRC to follow a banks paper trail, is there the will though, isn't it easier to feed law abiding Joe Public a line of bull and present their Certificate of Debt. Case closed, money recovered without the need to investigate, present evidence in Criminal court and make sure their evidence is not flawed, something we all know through experience they are simply not capable of.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2007 :  00:19:07  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
I remember reading somewhere a long time ago (before I became a Tax Credit Casualty) that HM Revenue & Customs did have more powers than the police.

The explanation was that they were set up many years before John? Peel formed the police force by the King himself.

I'm not sure if that is absolutely true, or if it's still the case today after the shotgun wedding of HM Revenue & Customs to the Inland Revenue, but from what we are seeing it looks like it could be.

I still feel that anyone who has become a victim of Tax Credit fraud should report it to the police.

You never know, there may be a high-ranking police officer somewhere who may be looking for an excuse to "have a go" at HMRC!

The Media (The Mirror) should definitely be involved.

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician



United Kingdom
625 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2007 :  22:02:41  Show Profile Send auntieh a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by chrisp

Perhaps it would be as well to realise that HMRC, Customs, have far more powers to investigate financial matters than the police. It is actually easier for them to get financial details from a bank than it is for the Police. Under PACE, Police and Criminal Evidence Act there is a limit to how long a person can be detained for questioning. Ask a Customs officer how long they can hold you without charge, you will get a shock. Police swear to protect persons and property and to prevent and detect crime. Customs and Revenue are concerned with MONEY and TAXES, no mention of people, protection or welfare in their brief.

You can see this in action with their Certificate of Debt. Present it in court, however flawed it may be and there is one result. Police bring you to court and at least you get the chance to argue your side.

Real easy for HMRC to follow a banks paper trail, is there the will though, isn't it easier to feed law abiding Joe Public a line of bull and present their Certificate of Debt. Case closed, money recovered without the need to investigate, present evidence in Criminal court and make sure their evidence is not flawed, something we all know through experience they are simply not capable of.



And I seem to remember reading not long ago that they are seeking even more powers to delve into claimants affairs. Frightening!
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2007 :  22:12:48  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
September 21 2007

You might think the taxman already has enough clout, but things could be about to get worse - a lot worse.

HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) wants to extend its powers so it would be able to raid bank and building society accounts for unpaid tax, without having to make its case before a judge and obtain a court order. Your home could also be at risk: HMRC could put a charge on your property if you didn't pay your tax, again without seeking sanction from a court.




Taxman gets it wrong
Sadly, the taxman is often guilty of getting it wrong. The National Audit Office recently criticised HMRC for errors in the PAYE system. It estimates that 5 million out of 30 million people are paying the wrong amount of tax.

Imagine if the taxman raided your bank account, leaving you with no funds, hefty bank charges and a poor credit rating - and it was all a mistake. Imagine then having to prove your case and get the money back from an adversary that is backed by the government and has bottomless pockets. It doesn't sound very fair, does it?

HMRC seems pretty determined to push through the proposals. It cites examples of other countries where official bank raids are legal. In Australia and France, for example, the tax authorities can grab money from your bank account or pay packet.

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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician



United Kingdom
625 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2007 :  22:28:08  Show Profile Send auntieh a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sammy

September 21 2007

You might think the taxman already has enough clout, but things could be about to get worse - a lot worse.

HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) wants to extend its powers so it would be able to raid bank and building society accounts for unpaid tax, without having to make its case before a judge and obtain a court order. Your home could also be at risk: HMRC could put a charge on your property if you didn't pay your tax, again without seeking sanction from a court.




Taxman gets it wrong
Sadly, the taxman is often guilty of getting it wrong. The National Audit Office recently criticised HMRC for errors in the PAYE system. It estimates that 5 million out of 30 million people are paying the wrong amount of tax.

Imagine if the taxman raided your bank account, leaving you with no funds, hefty bank charges and a poor credit rating - and it was all a mistake. Imagine then having to prove your case and get the money back from an adversary that is backed by the government and has bottomless pockets. It doesn't sound very fair, does it?

HMRC seems pretty determined to push through the proposals. It cites examples of other countries where official bank raids are legal. In Australia and France, for example, the tax authorities can grab money from your bank account or pay packet.

You must be logged in to see this link.



Oh well I'll just give up now and move into our TESCO value tent used by my daughter for pop festivals. Then they can take the house, car and whatever else they like. Probably they'd try and grab the tent too though.
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chrisp
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



98 Posts

Posted - 25/09/2007 :  23:08:42  Show Profile Send chrisp a Private Message
It really was a first class move amalgamating HM customs with the Inland Revenue when you think about it. HM Customs have seemingly unlimited powers granted by Government, afterall without your money generated from the taxes they impose what is the Government? HM Customs have draconian powers compared to any Civil Rights you may think you still have, they are after money at the end of the day and there is nothing going to stop them getting it.

Your only way of beating them is to get public exposure, get the public on your side by getting or even obtaining the real threat from the media of public exposure. They will back out immediately, they do not want their powers to become public knowledge. I can see membership of this site and public exposure of your case being sufficient to get your case dropped in future years if it grows sufficiently to become public knowledge. As yet there are simply not enough membership nor people aware of the site for it to concern them greatly. What do you get the biggest prison sentence for, murder or alledgedly owing the governeant taxes?

Again take this Certificate of debt farce, who in their right mind would believe that in the model of a justice system that has been copied worldwide in democracies that the evidence of the one party would be upheld without referance to the rebuttal from the other party.

Transfer this power to the Police for instance. "You were speeding on the A55 at 0900 0n 09 09 07. Sorry you Honour I live in Kent and have never been to North Wales in my life your Honour, I have witnesses to the fact that on this day I was in work in Ashford at 0900. Sorry, I have a Certificate of speeding from CC Brunstrom which says you were, judgement for the Plaintif, fined 60 and 3 points. Stick your evidence where the sun don't shine, pay up."

Wouldn't happen would it????????????

Wake up and smell the roses, it does where HMRC are concerned, they have the power to make it happen despite the best efforts of our "Justice System.

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 26/09/2007 :  00:26:53  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
And they wonder why Brits can't emigrate fast enough???

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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