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n/a
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15 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  19:26:41  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Hi there, Ive been following your site for a while trying to stop the claim for over payments. Whats really funny is they cannot decide how much I owe... 2500 or 6500 or even 8756??

I am disabled and therefore filled in the form saying that I received DLA. I followed the accompanying guidlines and two of the three qualifying statements met my situation. I was asked for proof a couple of years ago which I sent.

I recieved a letter back saying that because I did not receive the higher rate of DLA I wasnt eligible. This was never asked in the forms or guidlines. I have put my complaint in on this factor.

The Second Teir Complaints have now been dealing with this matter for some 4 months and I am still getting threatening letters from the TCO. I have complained and just this morning have sent yet another letter off. I am not really that bothered as if I do end up in court I can use it as proof of the incompetance of the whole system.



What I would like to know is has anyone else become foul of this problem? I look forward to your replies.

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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician



United Kingdom
625 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  20:03:27  Show Profile Send auntieh a Private Message
Hello Dune and welcome to the weird world of tax credit overpayments

First of all, it is very important that you do not go to court if you don't feel that HMRC has followed correct procdures etc. You will not get any chance to put your case forward because HMRC will turn up with a certificate saying you owe the money and that is that as far as the judge is concerned. He/she has no discretion to hear or examine any evidence from you and must accept what HMRC says. One member here has already found that to his cost.

If you have got as far as receiving a summons, you should follow the link to the homepage You must be logged in to see this link. and then to First Things First, which will tell you what to do to get the hearing stopped. Proceedings should not start when you are in dispute but this does not always seem to be adhered to. You might want to contact your local Citizens Advice Bureau who are well used to TAx credit problems and your MP should be made aware of how you are being treated.

It is very concerning, but unfortunately not surprising, that HMRC's inforamtion does not seem to fully explain how things work if you are in receipt of DLA and this is something that I suspect Alison MW will be wanting to take up direct with HMRC as we now have an established link following the Tax Credit Casualties visit to HMRC earlier this year. If you have been overpaid as a result of being give poor inforamtion then it would be outrageous for it to be suggested that you should pay money back. Sadly this is how the system seems to work though.

I am sure you will get more advice as others log in during the evening (or middle of the night in some cases) but hoepfully this will be enough to be going on with.

Good luck!!

Auntieh
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familytaxcredit
Forum Admin



373 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  20:11:04  Show Profile Send familytaxcredit a Private Message
Hi dune, don't end up in court. It is not possible to challenge the revenue if they have a certificate of debt. If they do not have the certificate they will ask for an adjournment and it is very likely the judge would grant their request. Once they have the certificate, the judge will accept as enough evidence to make a judgement against you. No matter what you have or say.

However there is a chance hmrc will drop the case once in court, this could happen if they screw up the paper work.

HMRC could call you a day or so before the hearing and inform you not to bother attending because they will be adjourning the 'hearing' (hearing is a misnomer by the way because it implies two stories will be heard, in fact only their side of the story will be considered, so it should be called a 'hear'?

Anyhow take no notice and turn up they may well ask for a judgement in your absence. It seems they like to convict in a cosy twosome just the judge and the revenue rep. Perhaps they don't like to see temper tantrums from the 'accused' whom has been stitched up by a kangaroo court.

In anycase turn up and ask the judge not to grant their request. I know he will look at you like Mr. Mainwaring does at Pike but hey you have to see law in action to believe it.
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Robert
Admin



United Kingdom
829 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  21:45:59  Show Profile Send Robert a Private Message
Hi Dune.. as autieh says Dont Go To Court ..the HMRC are above the law it seems..while you are in dispute. no money should be sought from you, this is the HMRC code of practice.if they try complain, and make sure you send it recorded delivery.that way they cant say we never received it, it may also be good to call and complain. and ask if the conversation is being recorded, so you can refer to it later..it would also be good to get the CAB involved and your local MP..

You must be logged in to see this link. cab.. citizens advice..

You must be logged in to see this link. find your MP here.


Any more problems.. just post...there will always be someone along to help, or point you in the right direction.




The truth is out there.. GO get it......Non Illigitamus Carborundum

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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  22:14:19  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Hello Dune, and welcome.

The advice that you have been given is sound - especially the bit about getting th CAB and your MP involved. It is also worth getting the media onto the case too, and the Mirror newsapaper has taken an interest recently.

Contact details for the mirror are; James Coney, Deputy Business Editor, Daily Mirror, can be contacted on: 0207 293 3030, or by email at james.coney@mirror.co.uk

We are finding that HMRC do not like adverse publicity - no sir, they do not like it up 'em!!

I'm pleased to see that you have started COMPLAINING and that was what worked for me - lots of very forceful complaints with the word COMPLAINT writ large and in red across the top of every page and across the top of the envelope too and sent by recorded delivery.

I took them on and won - others have too - and so can you!

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
You must be logged in to see this link.
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  22:46:35  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Welcome Dune
The reason why you haven't heard from 2nd Tier Complaints, is that for the last 6 weeks they have been doing another job. Yes it's such an important matter to the HMRC, customer complaints, that they can a whole team off one job and put them on another. All 2nd Tier complaints are apparently being stockpiled until this other job is finished. When that is? How long is a piece of string. !!!!So just sit tight. My advice to you if you do get a letter to go to court, would be to go and see your GP a week before the case is due to be heard. Tell him you are sick and could you have a note for the next 12 weeks.(thats if your not employed) Send this into court in place of yourself. Hopefully by that time someone will have got onto your casefile or better still the whole system might BLOW. Keep us informed Dune, good to have you onboard.
Splashin
Check to see what you owe, if anything here
You must be logged in to see this link.
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Robert
Admin



United Kingdom
829 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  23:06:43  Show Profile Send Robert a Private Message
splashin..

your saying that the whole of the 2nd tier department, are not answereing complaints.goes against the HMRC code of practice, as i am sure some may wait up to 12 weeks at least,..as they are being stockpiled..

The truth is out there.. GO get it......Non Illigitamus Carborundum

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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 19/09/2007 :  23:30:50  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Yes,
Spoke to a insider only yesturday. They work for the complaints deptartment 2nd & 3rd tier. Apparently they have been doing this other jobbie for the last 6 weeks. Beggers belief I know.

Splashin
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  06:18:51  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Hi Splashin. Might this 'other jobbie' be sending out 'we've repaid you and are reviewing your award' letters, like the standard, weird, unsigned one I got?

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  12:17:39  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
C'mon they are not that quick Ali. They are stockpiling all problem case's first, then they will trickle their way through the mess and then send out these letters 'We have found another overpayment, but this time we are not going to bully you to pay us back'. How can they define what overpayment should or shouldn't be paid back. I was always led to believe an overpayment was an overpayment. Its money from the Public Purse and HMRC thinks it has control of its strings. If another goverment dept went about their business in such a manner there would be total uproar. But as we all know HMRC make up the rules as they go along. Moving goalposts I hear you say, yes but only when they need to cover their own mess. Rules are put in place for reasons and when a line is crossed certain implications should apply. I'm sure HMRC comes from the land of wibbly, wobbly lines the type that snap back straight, when they need them to. Anyway all these wibbles and wobbles look like my tax credit payments, I need a lie down. lol
Splashin
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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician



United Kingdom
625 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  13:52:59  Show Profile Send auntieh a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by splashin

Welcome Dune
The reason why you haven't heard from 2nd Tier Complaints, is that for the last 6 weeks they have been doing another job. Yes it's such an important matter to the HMRC, customer complaints, that they can a whole team off one job and put them on another. All 2nd Tier complaints are apparently being stockpiled until this other job is finished. When that is? How long is a piece of string. !!!!So just sit tight. My advice to you if you do get a letter to go to court, would be to go and see your GP a week before the case is due to be heard. Tell him you are sick and could you have a note for the next 12 weeks.(thats if your not employed) Send this into court in place of yourself. Hopefully by that time someone will have got onto your casefile or better still the whole system might BLOW. Keep us informed Dune, good to have you onboard.
Splashin
Check to see what you owe, if anything here
You must be logged in to see this link.



This is very interesting information Splashin and explains why I have had virtaully no response to about four or five separate complaints I made in Jun/July except for an acknowledgement of one. Maybe it would be sensible now to start making complaints about the lack of response to complaints but who would be the right person to contact? Richard Summersgill hasn't responded to me either.
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n/a
deleted



15 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  17:17:50  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
Thanks for all your feedback. I am very supprised to find out that its a kangeroo court. Once again one law for one...

What really gauls me is that the whole system is fraught with incompetance, no one knows or can decide what I owe. Some one has decided that whilst I was paying back monies by deduction (I only decided to complain since I got a bill for 6.5k)the TCO still over paid me???

I am employed so the GP sick note wouldnt go down too well with my new employer! I have finally got in to a decent job where I dont need to claim TC, I just dont want those idoits to claim it back through my salary and so I loose out both ways.

Thanks once again for your replies.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  17:31:43  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
<<Thanks for all your feedback. I am very supprised to find out that its a kangeroo court>>

You're surprised??

You're not half as surprised as Sammy was!!

(Sorry Sammy mate - I couldn't resist it! )

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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Edited by - Alan the Geordie on 20/09/2007 17:32:51
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  20:20:48  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
<<You're not half as surprised as Sammy was!!>>
I'm still waiting for the show to be shown on candid camera or the like
They cannot be serious can they? Maybe I'm living in a different dimension and really I was in North Korea or somewhere...


btw my mates call me Skippy
...tch tch tch, what's that Skippy...you said some judge said shut the **** up, I can't do anything, the revenue have the certificate. tch tch tch...and they really wanted to throw you down the old mine shaft by the creek...get out of here Skippy you've been on the amber nectar
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 20/09/2007 :  20:28:16  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Aye, well, they can take all your savings and even your house off you.

They can strip you of your remaining dignity and they may even be able to send your Lass under the bridge with her handbag.

But they cannot rob you of your sense of humour!

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  00:59:50  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message

This made me smile! You two might just have a future in West End.
Sammy & Alan
size=2]Starring in[/size=2]

Stand and Deliver - The Tax Mans Calling
The TC Journals
Kangaroos and Pinstripe Suits

The list could be endless.
Splashin


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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  08:37:40  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
lol, totally agree that Sammy and Alan make a fantastic double-act. Forget Laurel and Hardy, Eric and Ernie, Reeves and Mortimer, Lucas and Walliams, Brown and Beelzebub - Sammy and Alan get my vote every time.

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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auntieh
Rank; Really should become a politician



United Kingdom
625 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  16:28:53  Show Profile Send auntieh a Private Message
Sometimes Alan seems like a double act all on his own, bless him!
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  17:41:54  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by splashin


This made me smile! You two might just have a future in West End.
Sammy & Alan
size=2]Starring in[/size=2]

Stand and Deliver - The Tax Mans Calling
The TC Journals
Kangaroos and Pinstripe Suits

The list could be endless.
Splashin






Sammy wouldn't last 5 minutes in the West End (of Newcastle)

Even the Krays lost their bottle in Newcastle and scarpered home pretty damn' quick"

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  17:44:25  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W

lol, totally agree that Sammy and Alan make a fantastic double-act. Forget Laurel and Hardy, Eric and Ernie, Reeves and Mortimer, Lucas and Walliams, Brown and Beelzebub - Sammy and Alan get my vote every time.

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.





Thank you for your vote of confidence - I think??

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 22/09/2007 :  17:48:32  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by auntieh

Sometimes Alan seems like a double act all on his own, bless him!



Well, I have been diagnosed as having a schizoid personality disorder (yes, that's true)

"You're never alone with schizophrenia!"

"Broons aall roond f'th' lads an' mind ye divvent drop yer dottles on th' new proggy mat!!"
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