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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 01/10/2007 :  21:37:58  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by auntieh

Hiding behind a giant smokescreen in my opinion. And what about the systemic abuse of claimants by the shambolic workings of HMRC?





Auntie, I like that. Definately a retort to include, I think.

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 19/10/2007 :  00:51:00  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W

An update. I got the weirdest of letters, and it seems others have to. I emailed and phoned HMRC, and have now been advised (by email) that Richard Summersgill will be writing to me this week with 'substantive answers'.

How helpful it seems to be to have one popular newspaper behind us, and the BBC 'waiting in the wings'...

The Media, it seems, have a lot of influence.

The answer may still be completely useless, of course, but at least there is some semblance of an 'answer'on its way.



Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.





Ali
It would be GREAT if this came into the public domain. I mean how do we truly know how many of these letters are/have/going to be sent out by Richard, he must have such a strong writing hand. The only way to be able to get these figure's is through the Press/Media coverage, the HMRC don't and can't even do the sums on that (so they say) so they will never give us the true facts.



Splashin
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 19/10/2007 :  21:07:52  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Actually, I never did get a letter from Richard Summersgill. Someone else wrote it in the end. They wrote off another chunk of money without anything resembling an apology for all the messing around, and I think they are now chasing £730. Or is it £600? (which the Adjudicator mentioned). Or £1330? I really don't know. Not sure they do, either!

Don't know how much we've all spent on fighting this out so far, but there've been hassles since August 2004, so three years are up and counting. Lots of post in that time. Mind you, it's barely been answered or looked at, so probably hasn't taken up that much staff time - just however long it takes to chuck it in the bin, stick it in a drawer or in-tray, or turn it into a coffee coaster.

I suppose it keeps people in a job.

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 19/10/2007 :  23:19:50  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W

Actually, I never did get a letter from Richard Summersgill. Someone else wrote it in the end. They wrote off another chunk of money without anything resembling an apology for all the messing around, and I think they are now chasing £730. Or is it £600? (which the Adjudicator mentioned). Or £1330? I really don't know. Not sure they do, either!

Don't know how much we've all spent on fighting this out so far, but there've been hassles since August 2004, so three years are up and counting. Lots of post in that time. Mind you, it's barely been answered or looked at, so probably hasn't taken up that much staff time - just however long it takes to chuck it in the bin, stick it in a drawer or in-tray, or turn it into a coffee coaster.

I suppose it keeps people in a job.

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.





Ali

I do believe you're almost as cynical as I.

Only you're younger - and prettier.
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onlimee
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



50 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  18:22:30  Show Profile Send onlimee a Private Message
look what i've just found............

You must be logged in to see this link.

could this be the answer to the amounts that aren't worth chasing ?????????

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onlimee
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



50 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  18:55:30  Show Profile Send onlimee a Private Message
"When form TC610 is prompted the computer checks the amount of outstanding overpayment. If the amount is on or below the ‘lower remission limit’ of £32.00, the overpayment is automatically remitted and direct recovery action stops
If the claimant does not respond to form TC610, the computer automatically checks the total amount of overpayment for the current and preceding 6 years, to see if it falls below the ‘higher remission limit’ of £100.00. If it does the overpayment is automatically remitted as not worth further pursuit
If the overpayment is over £100.00, the overpayment is automatically referred by the NTC computer to the Integrated Debt Management System (IDMS) used by RMS. RMS then start their own recovery processes, in some cases they may issue form IDMS15 to the claimant. This sets out what action will be taken if the overpayment is not repaid and the options open to the claimant to repay it
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Robert
Admin



United Kingdom
829 Posts

Posted - 05/11/2007 :  23:55:39  Show Profile Send Robert a Private Message
So after all that asking for the HMRC to supply some figures,and being told we can not divulge it...we found out by ourselves..


Good on you onlinmee..

The truth is out there.. GO get it......Non Illigitamus Carborundum

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2007 :  18:50:33  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Robert

So after all that asking for the HMRC to supply some figures,and being told we can not divulge it...we found out by ourselves..


Good on you onlinmee..

The truth is out there.. GO get it......Non Illigitamus Carborundum





Don't we always?

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 07/11/2007 :  18:53:11  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Love to know what it costs to put a case before the Ombudsman, 'cause that's where my case with it's outstanding £613/£723 (no-one really knows which) is going after the Adjudicator's seen it - if she upholds the TCO's decision. Surely it costs at least £700? Now if you can find that, Onlimee...

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  08:26:06  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Ali M-W

Love to know what it costs to put a case before the Ombudsman, 'cause that's where my case with it's outstanding £613/£723 (no-one really knows which) is going after the Adjudicator's seen it - if she upholds the TCO's decision. Surely it costs at least £700? Now if you can find that, Onlimee...

Morpheus : Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Matrix is. You have to see it for yourself.





Still don't know the answer to this, but I did hear that the average SARN request costs £150, so a few of those is going to tip the cost/benefit balance towards more generous write-off for innocent folk, surely?

Besides, your SARN request will show you all manner of things they're done and recorded wrongly. Even despite the puzzling abbreviations, do send off and look closely at those 'print screen' documents ... they even had my civil partner down as a fella even though they stung me with my massive overpayment as a reward for telling them about the missus!! Useless or what?

(typo corekted)

Agent Smith: I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it.


Edited by - Ali M-W on 14/11/2007 08:27:02
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n/a
deleted



240 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  15:10:48  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
You must be logged in to see this link.

an interesting non answer as to why mail is not answered by TC
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Resurgam
Admin



United Kingdom
144 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  20:09:19  Show Profile Send Resurgam a Private Message
Just posted my comment ....

You must be logged in to see this link.

It says:

If our MP's can't get an answer out of HMRC after six and a half months, what hope do the public - HMRCs Customers - have.
The Chancellor, Alistair Darling, still hasn't replied to Shadow Chancellor George Osbournes' letter of 3 September 2007. What hope is there when letters aren't responded to at the top levels?
HMRCs Tax Credits Office is incompetent at dealing with correspondence, disputes and overpayments. Jane Kennedy has given the type of response that we have all come to expect from this Govenment.
HMRC have moved their workforce from 2nd tier complaints to cover the procedural errors mentioned in her response, and therefore the terminally unacceptable delays in responding to Customer correspondence are compounded yet further!
When are Ministers going to address the fundamental problems at the HMRC Tax Credit Office, instead of thinking that they can continue to patronise not only other MP's, but every other person in the UK as well. When IS something going to be done about this?


Wonder if they'll listen?
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  21:03:51  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Now send it to 'Brown the Clown', please, Resurgam:

You must be logged in to see this link.


Agent Smith: I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it.

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Resurgam
Admin



United Kingdom
144 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  21:32:13  Show Profile Send Resurgam a Private Message
Done, Ali!

Had to do it twice, because your link takes you into the second step of the crap "e-mail the PM form", and when you send it you don't get a confirmation - it just bins it.

A link that takes you to the beginning of the process is :
You must be logged in to see this link.

Can't the PM even get a decent e-mail system?
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Resurgam
Admin



United Kingdom
144 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  22:00:18  Show Profile Send Resurgam a Private Message
Sent a copy to my MP, Tim Farron, (a hard-working Lib Dem) as well. Here it is:

I have an ongoing dispute with the Tax Credit Office at HMRC that I may soon contact you about for your assistance. We actually met briefly at the Graithwaite Manor Hotel during the “Save Our Bridges” campaign – thank you for your involvement and support.

In the meantime, for your information, I have sent the indented text below to the Prime Minister through his “e-mail the PM” website. I’m not holding my breath for a reply!

The Cabinet seem very reluctant to admit any of the problems at the HMRC Tax Credit office. Maybe you, or the Liberal Democrat party as a whole, could begin to apply more official pressure? Mind you, if George Osbourne can’t get an answer from the Chancellor, and Treasury Ministers continue to make a mockery of Parliament, I don’t hold out much hope of success! If you would like to see the extent of the problem, please go to the Tax Credit Casualties website (at You must be logged in to see this link.). There is a lot of information on the website, but the real, personal stories of HMRC incompetence can be found in the forum, which is accessible from the site. I understand the fact that you probably don’t have much time to surf the internet!

( .... message to Gordon the Moron inserted here ... )


Best of luck!

Edited by - Resurgam on 14/11/2007 22:04:12
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  22:58:43  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Tax Credits have often been described as Gordon Brown's Flagship.

I have described Tax Credits as a leaking rustbucket.

Either way, in Resurgram we have just the right bloke to torpedo it!!

(don't worry, it's a little "in" joke)

Geordie: Howay doon to the Chinese, pet.

English: Would you care to dine with me?


Geordie: Mindshesweelstacked.

English: What a stunning figure that young lady has.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2007 :  07:59:32  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
To change the subject slightly - Paula's now heard from Tracy Gale's office (Benefits and Credits Group) that they are now willing to accept case examples from us of:

1) Victims being threatened with court action before their legal rights to dispute were ever explained to them, let alone followed through.

2) Victims having money recovered without being informed of the 'overpayment' or their right to dipute it.

3) Victims being told 'you have no right of appeal', when HMRC view 'appeals' and 'disputes' as entirely different things to the lay person and hide behind their odd terminology. In other words, everyone can appeal - it's just called a dispute or 'Request to Reconsider Recovery' (RRR) of an overpayment.

Paula has lots of examples to email Tracy's PA (who says 'I will then pass on to the right person to reply'), but it's rare we get this opportunity to share, so I would not like to be precious about it. If any of you would really like Paula to email details of your own grievance across (relating to those three points for the moment), please drop her an email.

Agent Smith: I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it.

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Resurgam
Admin



United Kingdom
144 Posts

Posted - 20/11/2007 :  12:57:59  Show Profile Send Resurgam a Private Message
Regarding my post on 14 November (above, on this page)

quote:
Sent a copy to my MP, Tim Farron, (a hard-working Lib Dem) as well. Here it is:

I have an ongoing dispute with the Tax Credit Office at HMRC that I may soon contact you about for your assistance. We actually met briefly at the Graithwaite Manor Hotel during the “Save Our Bridges” campaign – thank you for your involvement and support.

In the meantime, for your information, I have sent the indented text below to the Prime Minister through his “e-mail the PM” website. I’m not holding my breath for a reply!

The Cabinet seem very reluctant to admit any of the problems at the HMRC Tax Credit office. Maybe you, or the Liberal Democrat party as a whole, could begin to apply more official pressure? Mind you, if George Osbourne can’t get an answer from the Chancellor, and Treasury Ministers continue to make a mockery of Parliament, I don’t hold out much hope of success! If you would like to see the extent of the problem, please go to the Tax Credit Casualties website (at You must be logged in to see this link.). There is a lot of information on the website, but the real, personal stories of HMRC incompetence can be found in the forum, which is accessible from the site. I understand the fact that you probably don’t have much time to surf the internet!

( .... message to Gordon the Moron inserted here ... )


Best of luck!

I have now received a reply from my MP, Tim Farron - quick response! It shows that there are MPs who know what's going on - so, even if your MP hasn't helped you very much, take heart! As Tim Farron says, "... the time is approaching ...". Here's the letter:

"Thank you for your email with regard to your entirely justified indignation about the dreadful track record for maladministration of the Tax Credits Office of the Revenue and Customs Agency.

I have suffered many instances of the kind of Ministerial obfuscation that you have illustrated in the case of Jane Kennedy. However by coincidence I have today received a 7 page indictment of the Tax Credits Office by the Parliamentary Ombudsman with the judgement that the entire demand for overpayment amounting to some £5,000 has been cancelled. The lesson to be learned from this case is that you must conduct your dispute with the Agency IN WRITING and you must keep a copy of every letter that you send to them.

I wish that I could find the answer to your principle point because it is one of the worst features of new Labour Government that Ministers have been led to believe that they need not bear responsibility for maladministration or abject mis-management AND they have been allowed to get away with this by the opposition parties. I sense that the time is approaching, when the accumulation of frustration amongst the general public will cause the inevitable electoral backlash. In the meantime I fear that it would be a waste of our time for me to add to your letter on the principle of Ministerial irresponsibility. I will concentrate upon the fight for justice for individuals and I will be happy to take up your case in due course."


The £5,000 write-off that he refers to isn't mine, by the way.

Hope it's yours !!

Edited by - Resurgam on 20/11/2007 13:09:05
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n/a
deleted



240 Posts

Posted - 20/11/2007 :  23:21:24  Show Profile Send n/a a Private Message
not ours either, but at least you got a response!!
Looks like after todays blunder has been outlined to the public something may be done about the maladministration we all knew existed long before they lost the recent data.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 20/11/2007 :  23:26:10  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by rosie

not ours either, but at least you got a response!!
Looks like after todays blunder has been outlined to the public something may be done about the maladministration we all knew existed long before they lost the recent data.



I wouldn't bet on it.

This crowd are as slippery as a bucketful of eels & Vaseline!

Geordie: Ootside! Yeandme!
English: Let us settle this matter in a civilised manner. Man to man like gentlemen.

Geordie: Gissies tetties and bagies.
English: I wish to order pork, potatoes and a little turnip, please.
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