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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector


United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2010 :  22:25:51  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
Hi, i am new to this so hope that i have posted on the correct forum.Background information...
I have 3 children ages 13, 2 and 1. The 2 youngest were born abroad but have a full UK birth certificate and are dual nationality. We live in the UK full time and i claim income support. From my youngest sons birth to last October i was also claiming child tax credit for all 3 children and child benefit. In September 2009 i was asked to send my youngest sons uk birth certificate to the tax credit office in Preston, which i did by recorded delivery.
In early October he was taken off my claim for tax credit as they said that they had not recieved his birth certificate and that they had checked with child benefit and had been told that they had no record of payments for my son.
I immediatly logged an appeal as i called the child benefit who had a record of him and his birth certificate on their computer system.
2 days later the birth certificate was returned by HMRC by special delivery (they had it all along!!). I was told he could not be returned to my claým and the appeal had to take its course. The problem i was later told was the tax credit had a different birthday to the chil benefit office (their own error).
This was 7th October last year. I was told the appeal date was before the 15th February...as yet its still not heard. They are telling me they have all the information they need but cant add my son back until the appeal is heard. Things are really hard for us as not only am i losing his tax credit every week but also we would be recieving healthy eating vouchers for milk ect, they stopped these also when his tax credit stopped.
I call every week and just get told waýt for the appeal to go through, but how long will i have to wait? I have made 3 complaints and spoken to managers. Each tells me that they have everything they need and its all their mistake, but that doesnt help when im trying to feed my family.
I was overpaid (again in dispute) a few years back and am worried once its sorted they will just take the money off what i owe. can anyone help??

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samthe
Mod



341 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2010 :  22:40:42  Show Profile Send samthe a Private Message
This is outrageous. Go to your MP as soon as you possibly can. Unless he/she is an out and out moron he/she will see the total injustice of it & get onto the MPs hotline to Tax credit Office to get this sorted.
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2010 :  23:13:02  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi emec

Samthe is right you need to go to your M.P. They should never have made you wait so long. If they can't put your son back onto the claim until the appeal is heard and we are months past the hearing date already, how much longer are they going to be??? There is a link on the Library page, to find your local MP. You should even be able to email them your case, just as you have here. Living on the minimum amount of money is difficult, but missing out on a child's credit each week is a shortfall of near on £50. With the money they now owe you for your child and your overpayment recovery, HMRC can only take 10% of your yearly award so, they can not recover the full amount in full.



Splashin
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2010 :  23:19:15  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Find your Local M.P

You must be logged in to see this link.




Splashin
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 17/03/2010 :  13:49:00  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
Many thanks for the replys that i have had. I am about to sit and contact my MP. I am sad to hear that its only 10% of the yearly award that they can take for an overpayment. When my son was born it took 3 months to put him on my claim (they had to do it clericaly due to my overpayment!). When he was finally awarded tax credit they kept all of the backdated payments and took it off the overpayment. They still take money off me each week too. Can i claim back the healthy eating vouchers ?...i'm so worried about it all i haven't slept properly for months! At least now, with your advice i feel i can do something more than just call each week.
Many thanks Rachel
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  02:01:12  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Hi Rachel

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles, but very pleased that you're about to contact your MP.

Can you please tell us who (s)he is and what party (s)he belongs to?

Try to get to meet with your MP face-to-face rather than via a secretary, or tlelephone and let him/her know about your sleepless nights. Remind your MP that sleep deprivation is a classic torture technique and demand to know why YOU are being tortured by YOUR government!!

"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions.

In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."

Adolf Hitler
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 18/03/2010 :  14:59:28  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
I emailed my MP yesterday and have also written a letter and posted it today. His name is Graham Allen, he is Labour for Nottingham East. I called the tax credit office again today, i spoke a bit more forcefully than usual and was put through to a department. They basically asked me why i am calling, they can do NOTHING until my appeal is heard. It is not in their hands or ability to re add my son to my claim. They said that they can't tell me how much longer i will have to wait, they do not know...they will write to me. It gets more depressing each time.
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2010 :  02:52:26  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Hi Rachel.

Thanks for that.

Please try to keep your chin up & don't let this thing depress you. I know (believe me I DO know) that it's easier said than done, but I also know that getting depressed is a road to nowhere - been there & done that & survived to tell the tale!

Please feel freet o use us here not just for advice, but for help & support - a shoulder to cry on if you like, so stay with us & you'll get through it.

"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions.

In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."

Adolf Hitler
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 29/03/2010 :  09:47:50  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
Well, its been over 10 days since i emailed my MP. I have also written to him and again no reply. Last week i actually thought i had made some headway with HMRC. I spoke to an advisor then a manager who said that they would esculate my complaint and hopefully i would hear something back. Its now 22 weeks without any payment for my son...and lifes just getting harder! I called again as i had heard nothing only to be told once more that HMRC can do nothing until my appeal is heard (even though all advisors can see that he exsists as they have had his birth certificate and its recorded on their system).
I have even asked if i can cancel my whole tax crefit claim then on the next day reclaim for all the children, so my son will at least recieve tax credit from that date. They have said that this is not possible...does anyone on here know otherwise?
I recieve child benefit for him so i cant understand why they have to wait until my appeal is heard. Also how long are appeals taking at the moment. I was told that it would be sorted by 11th February and its still not!
Thanks to HMRC we now have a gas, and water metre installed. The utility companies were helpful for the first months or so but they want their money. So can i ask..now what can i do? I am owed well over 1000 pounds now and when your in the sýtuation i am in thats a lot of money. I have always worked, always paid tax (in some cases too much tax). But since i have started on income support last year its like they dont want to help. I have even been informed by a Tax Credit telephone advisor that i should apply to the benefit service for a loan while they sort everything out!
All replies and suggestions are appreciated
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 29/03/2010 :  19:12:06  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi Emec

I just can not believe what is happening to you and your family. It must be so hard coping financially. From the first time I read your post about this appeal, I was very surprised and shocked that HMRC have allowed it to drag on so long. Usually they deal with appeal cases a lot quicker, because when you appeal, you are telling HMRC they have not correctly awarded your family circumstances. And after any proof has been submitted to HMRC they correct the award or advise you of their reason to uphold their original decision. If you sent in this proof roughly around Oct 2009, then they have had ample time to confirm everything.

I am also so shocked that you have not even had a acknowledgment from the MP you wrote to. Do you know if this MP holds any sessions, where you can speak face to face with them about any issues, try to find out. I would defiantly ask the local newspaper would they like to write a story on how helpful your MP really is, or even approach the other government parties, to see if they have any interest getting this escalated further.

Okay, what I am going to write next, may not be comfortable with others who help/advise on this forum, because it's not how things are suppose to be done with the tax credits procedures, but from my experience working with the NTC computer system and I do know what I am talking about.
Firstly I need you to contact Child Benefit Office, by phone or by email using this link You must be logged in to see this link.
If you call get them to clarify details held on their computer system. Do this for each child, write down full name, date of birth and date of responsibility, while on the phone. Once you know that the details that CHB have are correct, you can then proceed to the next stage, if they are wrong they need to be changed on the child benefit computer system.
Next I advise you to complete a brand new fresh claim form, the quickest and in my opinion, the best way for you to do this, would be to attend the Local Tax Office. The following link will give you your local office address and map.
You must be logged in to see this link.
or your local DWP
You must be logged in to see this link.
Do not make any attempt to do this over the telephone, it must be done in person. Fill in the new claim form with all your families details as they are on the day you are going to sign the fresh claim form. Complete all parts possible, give bank details,CHB number, the more complete, the better. Do not mention on this fresh claim form anything about your current claim in the system. Do not send in a accompanying letter or anything, just the new form to this address, Tax Credit Office, Preston, PR1 0SB. If you do send via Royal Mail, send recorded delivery. If you send via Tax Office or DWP get a receipt from them of the date, the fresh claim was received by them.
Once this fresh claim is processed by TCO onto the NTC core, it will cause the system to create a verification failure. These are system designs in place to ensure fresh claim details are correct and already not being paid for by tax credits.
This will then mean you will be dealt with by a TALO, who should contact you, if they don't contact after 7 days, you call helpline, to find out about your fresh claim's progression. The fresh claim will still be in a 'Capture Status' and the advisor on the call will escalate to TALO team. They will or should be able to lift the original verification failure held on the current claim and reprocess it or if this is not possible, they will be able to process the fresh claim, then the computer can do all it's checks and the correct information will be confirmed and awarded. This will only pay from the date the fresh claim is received. Any monies due to you already, will have to be dealt with accordingly.
I know from past experience that when the NTC system has any details of children which are incorrect, it cannot recognise the correct details when they are input and I have advised before that this fresh claim scenario is sometimes the only way to get the correct entitlement for your family.
Don't think you will get in trouble completing this fresh claim, after all, all you are doing is fighting for what is and should be yours. Please keep us updated on the situation, I feel it is outrageous and will seek further advice from any professionals I liaise with as to what steps can be taken to resolve this matter ASAP


Splashin
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 29/03/2010 :  19:28:08  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Have just found this out about appeal time limits.

ARTG8370 – First-tier and Upper Tribunals: Preparing for tribunal: Default Paper cases


Introduction

HMRC statement of cases

Appellant’s response to the statement of case

Hearing requested in Default Paper case

Introduction
In Basic, Standard and Complex cases customers and HMRC will be invited to present their case at a tribunal hearing, see ARTG8600 onwards. But appeals in the Default Paper category will be decided on the basis of information given on the papers alone, unless one of the parties asks for a hearing.

When the Tribunals Service allocates the appeal to the Default Paper category it will write to HMRC with a copy of the appeal, and ask for a statement of case.



HMRC statement of case
For appeals within the Default Paper category HMRC must send a statement of case to the tribunal and a copy to the customer within 42 days of the date the Tribunals Service sent us a copy of the customer’s notice of appeal to the tribunal.

The statement of case must



•in an appeal, state the legal provision under which the appealed decision was made, and
•set out HMRC’s position on the issues in dispute.
We should include any relevant information relating to the decision appealed against, including copies of documents where appropriate.

We may also (exceptionally) include a request that the case be dealt with at a hearing, rather than on the basis of paper submissions alone. Any cases where the tribunals caseworker intends to request a hearing should be referred to Tax Administration Advice (Appeals) for advice.

We should make every effort to meet the tribunal time limits. But if we cannot provide the statement of case within the 42 day time limit we should ask for an extension of time.

To do this we would apply for a direction that the time be extended (tribunal rule 5(3)(a) SI 273/2009) or by including with the statement of case a request for an extension of time.

The request for an extension should give reasons for the request and an explanation of why the statement of case was not provided within the time limit. The tribunal will not automatically agree to an extension of the time limit, and it has the discretion to decide the matter without a statement of case being prepared. So it is important that, if we make a request for an extension, we provide good reasons why the time limit was not met.


Today is the 43rd day since your appeal hearing. So you defo have grounds to complain and get compensation from HMRC.



Splashin
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 30/03/2010 :  20:44:34  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
Hi Splashin, many thanks for your advice (your a star!!).
...Ok i plan to do everything that you suggest because its the best advice i have had and im not sure how much longer i can go through this, i feel like i am losing my sanity.
When they first took my son from my claim i called the HMRC tax credit helpline. I explained that i recieved child benefit for him. The advisor told me that they had checked the details that i had given them and they had called the child benefit service who had told HMRC that i was not in reciept of child benefit for him. I immediatly called child benefit who said that this was rubbish that there was a scanned copy of his birth certificate on their system. The advisor requested a letter be sent to me with all my 3 childrens details on and dates of birth ect. It was all correct on their system. I sent the letter in to the Tax Credit appeal along with the appeal form. Should i re contact child benefit (the information they have about my family is 100% correct!).
I will go to the local tax office and reclaim, will the form ask my income? I only have income support, tax credit for 2 children and child benefit. If so should i say i am in reciept of tax credit?
Many thanks for all of your support, i would be lost without it!

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missfroy2
Mod



298 Posts

Posted - 31/03/2010 :  09:31:00  Show Profile Send missfroy2 a Private Message
As Splashin could probably guess, i don't agree that making a new claim is the answer here.

If there is a problem on TC side (for some reason they can't see the CB details) that might mean that a new claim is stuck just as the old claim is. Then you are left with two appeals.

Secondly, making a new claim is not guaranteed to get your backdated money any quicker and may indeed cause further delay because there will be confusion about two claims. Tax credits are never dealt with on a 'caseworker' approach therefore no one person will understand what is happening.

Also, for the new claim to go into payment the old one will have to end. If you have any overpayments on that old claim, they will be recovered directly and you will lose ongoing recovery.

Also note you will have to complete two sets of declaration forms.

I would suggest that before you try this you seek professional help and see if someone can intervene on your behalf. Have you tried someone like TaxAid or LITRG or CAB?

MF2

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missfroy2
Mod



298 Posts

Posted - 31/03/2010 :  09:35:08  Show Profile Send missfroy2 a Private Message
Also, i have just noticed you are on Income Support.

Job Centre Plus have a fast track process for tax credits with HMRC. Given that you are missing essential support for your children, it is worth speaking you a JC+ adviser to see if they can fast track the issue with HMRC as they have a dedicated number to ring.

Some organisations that can give you free help I mentioned previously and I've found the addresses for:

You must be logged in to see this link.
You must be logged in to see this link.

CAB, your local one You must be logged in to see this link.

I worry that you may get yourself in more of a mess and would benefit from having someone you can talk to who can guide you through it.

MF2
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  07:25:40  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Hi Emec. I would try Job Centre Plus and CAB, although it could be an all day job to get to see someone useful. I would also try your MP again. He is (supposedly) a Labour man and should be looking out for his lower income constituents:


This is from his website:

By Phone:

0115-975-2377

By Post:

Graham Allen MP

House of Commons

London

SW1A 0AA

The best way to get in touch is by post, putting everything down in writing means that I will have the full information in front of me when I take up your case. If you include your telephone number on any letter we will call you back to discuss the case.

Back in the Nottingham Office, I deal with casework, phone calls and letters, all the time representing the interest of the people in Nottingham. This year we have dealt with hundreds of cases from Anti – Social Behaviour, War Widows, Tax Credit, Child Support, Miners’ Compensation and dozens of other issues that I take up for my constituents. Some we win, some we don’t, but we always do our best. It’s one of the best parts of the job when we finally get justice for someone.

I have a dedicated team of professional caseworkers in Nottingham and in London. If you have a problem and need our help then please get in touch, its what we’re here for.



Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  13:31:21  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to offer advice. I have decided to go down the following route. Today i have contacted Tax Aid and asked if they can help me. I also telephoned my local CAB, however i can't see an advisor until another 3 weeks. I called the child benefit agency who will send me a statement of what information they hold for me in a letter form, it will confirm the status of my youngest son (i hope!).
I have once again sat and written to my local MP, if i get no response i will try and attend his next local clinic.
On Tuesday i will go to my local job centre and sit until i can get some help. If they cant help i will attend my local tax office and again sit until someone can help me.
If i have no change in my situation by the time my CAB appointment comes through then i will go down the route of making a reclaim...to see if this will at least get me his money each week.
Does anyone know if i can contact the people who deal with the appeals? It seems that HMRC are not going to chase the status and i will have to. Once again THANKYOU!!
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  14:44:18  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
<< Does anyone know if i can contact the people who deal with the appeals? >>

I very much doubt it.

In my view, they are as faceless as they are spineless!!

However, shy bairns get nowt so there's no harm in you trying.

"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible reductions.

In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."

Adolf Hitler
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samthe
Mod



341 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2010 :  21:28:04  Show Profile Send samthe a Private Message
Just to note that I fully agree with Missfroy - do not make another claim. It will only result in yet more confusion & is extremely unlikely to cause the problem to be resolved any quicker.

If your MP can't bother to use his hotline to TCO to get them to get their finger out, then you know who not to vote for!
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2010 :  20:05:41  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
WOW!!! today i had some news, although as yet i am unsure how to feel about it.
HMRC put 2 payments into my account. Thats great news as i can now pay some bills and get the water metre removed (Severn Trent have been great with me!).
Now they have paid me money and today i recieved a letter. It wasn't an award notice just a letter saying that they have now decided to add my son to my claim and if i wasn't happy about this then i have to contact them in 30 days (can you believe the rubbish they write!!).
Now as yet i havent touched a penny of what they put in as again i need your help. I called the contact centre to ask how the paymentt was made up. They said the ammount of 123.67 is my weekly award for my 3 children. The advisor has said that no deduction is being made for my overpayment from years ago ..YET!...this ammount is 47.23 a week more than what i got for the 2 children.
Then they put a sum of 1118.06 in for my sons payments from October the 7th to this week (works out at 50.82 a week.
I dont want to touch it in case they make me pay this back. Although i hate to think of the ammount i have paid trying to sort this mess in postage, phone calls, i even lost over 130 pounds of healthy eating coupons as well (at a time when we needed them most).
What do you think i should do? spend the money? Does my award sound correct?
After i have sorted all the bills and debts i wont forget you all helping me. I will make a donation and carry on with this site as you helped me when i thought no one would.
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2010 :  20:35:56  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi Emec

Fantastic News !!!

Yes the amount they have paid to you is correct from 07/10/09-05/04/10. I work it out to be around £1051. that is just for the child element, you will also get family element on top, which is about £90. So please go and treat yourself and family to what you should of been getting in the first place. But DO NOT allow HMRC go unchallenged on compensation for what they have put you through, the costs for the calls, the distress. They do owe you big time for that.

Well Done Emec



Splashin
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emec
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
10 Posts

Posted - 06/04/2010 :  20:47:07  Show Profile Send emec a Private Message
Well it was a shock but a nice one! However i am still planning on seeing my MP at his local monthly drop in...just to let him know that i WONT be voting for him as he didn't have the decency to acknowledge my letter or email.
I emailed my local paper on Sunday and hope they still can make a story from what we have been through.
I do want to challenge HMRC, not for money but maybe next time ..or even one time they will stop and think before they put another family through this. How is the best way to do this?
As for my money, bills a treat for us all, and then try and save (you never know with HMRC when they will stop your money!)
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