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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector


United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2010 :  21:12:02  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
i have a big problem may take time to explain so sorry in advance,in 2008 i contacted tax credits,cant remember why however in conversation i told them about my disabilites(astmah and artitis)irecived my award stating i was disabled and therefore entitled to a disability premium which was being paid with my tax credit.i have been recieving this for a while now.I dropped my hours(from 30 to 25)and lost about 25.00 per week.A couple of months later i returned to 30 hrs as i was worst off money wise.In november i applied for DLA which was granted at higher rate.I contacted tax credits to drop my hours to 25 as i could now afford to do this. I also told them about the DLA i had just been awarded.NOW they say i should have been on DLA to recieve the premium.At no time did anyone ask me if i was recieving DLA.now my tax credits have been stopped and i owe over 4000 00 pounds.This seems unfair as i had no idea reguarding this.I asked DLA they said it dosent affect my tax credit at all.surley someone should have asked me if i was recieving DLA.PLEASE HELP.I AM VERY WORRIED

j daniels


j daniels

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TCC Webmaster
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Virgin Islands (United Kingdom)
148 Posts

Posted - 06/03/2010 :  18:25:42  Show Profile Send TCC Webmaster a Private Message
Hi katkin,

Best advice I can give is to go to our main website and follow the dispute steps. Here's the link to the Dispute section: You must be logged in to see this link..

The TC846 is the first step, but make sure to do step 2 and claim your data asap. You should receive a CD with your recorded phone conversations to the Tax Credit helpline as part of that data.

Others will be along soon to give more detailed advice.

Best of luck!



The original 'point & click' interface was a Smith & Wesson !!
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2010 :  09:01:02  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Hi Katkin/J Daniels. I think the saving grace for you is that HMRC did not meet its responsibilities at the outset to "give correct advice" as they failed to let you know that you had to be on a specific rate of DLA to qualify for tax credits at the rate they paid you. This, to my mind, makes it HMRC's fault and not yours. So don't worry yourself into an early grave, but empower yourself by reading the "how to dispute" section of our website at You must be logged in to see this link. and sending off a letter to start the process.

Your aim, at this stage, is not to win outright from your first letter (very, very, very rare), but to call off the recovery wolves. Once you've done this, you will be amongst thousands of people arguing their cases. I say this just to show you that you are very far from alone, and in Brown's Britain the innocent have to fight to be recognised as such. Having bought this stay of execution, the process slows down to a slow crawl. You'll then have all the time you need to build your case up and argue that you were honest and they were incompetent to task.

What angers me most about this whole business is the "guilty until proved innocent" stance which Brown allows HMRC to take towards us. Thus, it is up to US to prove we are honest and compliant, rather than to HMRC to prove otherwise. It will be down to you to prove you made that key call and got told the things you did, rather than up to HMRC to p[rove it never happened. And that, in my books, is wrong, wrong, WRONG!. Brown and Nu Liebore, take note!

All you need to do (sounds so easy, doesn't it?!) is innocently aske for ALL your data and call records, without showing too much of your hand (otherwise - since it happens more often than mere coincidence would allow - your crucial call will go missing, surprise, surprise) and find the call where the Helpline Advisor failed to tell you that you needed to be on DLA at a certain level to get the award that you did.

Once you have that in your hands, write a letter summarising or directly quoting what was said. Write on it "cc sent to..." and add "Tax Credit Casualties" and your MP's name. Perhaps even add a newspaper's copntact details, as this helps, too.

If that doesn't deliver results, you then write directly to Stephen Timms at the treasury asking for his intervention.

If you stay strong, you will win this. I feel it in my bones. I'd even wager a tenner on it, so long as you stay strong and don't give in.

Should you not get sent your call records, or this call proves missing, do get back to us and we will do what we can. But at this stage, let's hope and believe that it will be there.

Good luck!

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2010 :  19:21:33  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi ali m-w just to let u know i have now got a solictor(legal aid)also meeting my mp on the 19th.thanks for your imput.how many other poor people has this happened to i wonder lots i expect.xxxx

j daniels
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 10/03/2010 :  22:42:55  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by katkin11

i have a big problem may take time to explain so sorry in advance,in 2008 i contacted tax credits,cant remember why however in conversation i told them about my disabilities(asthma and artists)received my award stating i was disabled and therefore entitled to a disability premium which was being paid with my tax credit.i have been receiving this for a while now.I dropped my hours(from 30 to 25)and lost about 25.00 per week.A couple of months later i returned to 30 hrs as i was worst off money wise.In November i applied for DLA which was granted at higher rate.I contacted tax credits to drop my hours to 25 as i could now afford to do this. I also told them about the DLA i had just been awarded.NOW they say i should have been on DLA to receive the premium.At no time did anyone ask me if i was receiving DLA.now my tax credits have been stopped and i owe over 4000 00 pounds.This seems unfair as i had no idea regarding this.I asked DLA they said it doesn't affect my tax credit at all.surely someone should have asked me if i was receiving DLA.PLEASE HELP.I AM VERY WORRIED

j daniels



Hi Katkin

Sorry to read your story, you must be very worried. Okay, I have a few questions.
1. When you called in 2008 and told them about asthma etc were you already getting paid Tax Credits? If Yes, what were they WTC or CTC or both?
2. Do you have children on this claim?
3. What date was your DLA awarded from? What date did Tax Credits begin to pay this higher rate to you?
4. You say at no time where you ever ask were you already in receipt of DLA to be entitled to this element, how did you find out about it? Was it mentioned to you on this call in 2008 by the advisor for you too know about it, was the circumstance changed over the telephone, which then awarded you this higher amount WTC.
5. Are you a single claimant or a joint claimant?
6. Your Tax Credits now have stopped. Is this due to already had too much than you should have got for the tax year or you are no longer entitled to claim tax credits?






Splashin

Edited by - splashin on 10/03/2010 22:43:59
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2010 :  07:07:18  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Hi Katkin - great that you have a solicitor through Legal Aid. I've heard it said, however, that the tax credit system is so complex that people who work for HMRC and deal with these issues daily don't understand it fully, and that MPs, solicitors, accountants, graduates etc. struggle with it just like we claimants do. I'm saying this not to worry you but just to let you know that your solicitor can use the Tax Credit Casualties site at You must be logged in to see this link. as a resource, and that Splashin talks a lot of sense! (As do Samthe, PJD and Miss Froy, among others). Your solicitor will know tax law, and will use this to get a good result for you, but (s)he may not know all the ins and outs of the tax credit system. If there are any areas we can help you both with, we surely will.

Sending for all your documents and call records,known as a Subject Access Request, is what you need to do if you haven't already. Splashin is great at helping people interpret them.

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 13/03/2010 :  23:53:43  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
to splashin
1 yes i was getting wtc
2 no children
311/11/09 to 12/11/11
4aqpprox 18 months
5foumd out through my solictior
6single claimant
7 tax credit stopprd when i declared DLA
5

j daniels
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 13/03/2010 :  23:55:36  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
at no time did anyone from tax credit ask me if i was getting dla

j daniels
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 14/03/2010 :  21:09:25  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi Katkin

Thanks for your reply. I have seen your type of overpayment scenario many times, due to this 'disabled' element being applied incorrectly. If you wish to dispute this overpayment I do think it will be difficult, unless you can get your recordings from the helpline of the conversations you would have had about this element being applied to your claim.
Really Katkin, the person who you should pursue about this is the solicitor, who gave you the insight to call up and tell HMRC about your disabilities etc. Really on that call there should of been some question asked by HMRC regarding the receipt of DLA. They should of asked if you where getting a normal or higher rate DLA, as the 2 have different award elements. So that could be the beginning of some ground to start your dispute, but you defo need them call recordings, before you even begin. You need to follow the 'How to Dispute' link from the home page, it will tell you what you need to do. It looks a bit scary, but just do 1 step at a time. Send in your TC846(overpayment dispute) and also send in a SARN. This will suspend recovery of the overpayment whilst it is investigated further and also get you all your information held on the system about your claim and also all recordings of calls made to helpline.

You say your tax credits has now stopped since you informed them of the DLA being awarded. Do you mean the payments have stopped or the total award has now ended? With you being currently in receipt of DLA and working min 16 hrs ans getting a lowish income, there should be some eligibility in you being awarded Tax Credits.
Can you answer these questions again for me please.
1. Date(roughly)Tax Credit's began to pay WTC with the disability element.
2. Date(roughly)DLA was awarded to you.
3. Do you still have a ongoing award with Tax Credits?
4. How many hours do you currently work?
5. Hourly rate or Annual Salary now?
6. Do DLA pay you normal or higher rate DLA?


Splashin
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2010 :  10:26:28  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi 1 they say 2005 but i have award notice stating i wasnt recieving it at that time
2 nov2009/nov2011
3 they have stopped my tax credits
4 originally 30 dropped to 25
5 ann salary 8,600
6 higher rate mobility med rate care

j daniels
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2010 :  12:40:55  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi just phomed tax credits to find out reguarding my new claim form,(they told my solictor that it was being sent out last monday)it hadnt been sent.also i was informed that i delared my dla in 2005
which is rubbish as i wasnt ill then.also found my award for 2005 which states i was recievimg basic tax credit plus the 30 hour a week element no mention of the disability premium.this is so annoyimg feel like catching train to preston and going nuts with them.

j daniels
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2010 :  12:45:26  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
also told by tax credits they never check on these things they take your word for it. perhaps ill tell all my friends to say they recieve dla to get more money.being honest with these morons just dosent work no wonder so many people fiddle the tax credits. i wouldnt declare anything again to much hassle.

j daniels
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2010 :  13:24:56  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi Katkin

Your claim should never ever have been ended, you have eligibility to claim, as long as your hours do not go below 16. For the tax year 2009-2010 should your hours have remained on 30 your yearly tax credit award would be 4388.40
When you dropped to 25 hours you entitlement would be 3613.40 for the 2009-2010 tax year.
The 4000 thats been overpaid, is this just for 1 year or more?
You need to send off a SARN to get all your system files and call recordings, to prove you never told HMRC in 2005 that you were getting DLA. Among these files will be the exact date your claim was updated to include the disabled element. You can follow the dispute steps link from our home page. Please send recorded delivery for your SAR it takes weeks to come,but you will be able to prove your dispute.
Any questions please ask.


Splashin
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2010 :  14:37:23  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi my solictors sening all the info as i have told tax credits she is my 3rd party,so everything goes through her.i was taken to hospital last friday with chest pains all the stress to do with this i expect. am seeimg mp on friday.thanks for your imput.will let you know what happens.

j daniels
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 15/03/2010 :  22:44:03  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
splashin ive got a solictor going to see mp on friday sent letter to stephen timms any other advice im going to annoy tax credits so much they will be fed up of hearing my name and insurance number.i know im in the right they have nothing on tape or letter reguarding my claim reguarding disability premium as i was never asked wish me luck.

j daniels
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2010 :  17:55:52  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi Katkin

You keep up that fighting spirit and you will succeed.



Splashin
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 16/03/2010 :  18:21:41  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi splashin just to let u know when i phoned tax credits they informed me ive been claiming disability premium since 2005,which is rubbish i happen to have an award notice from 2005 which states i was recieving basic tax credit plus the 30 hr a week premium,i wasnt even disabled then and worked full time 40 hrs.did a bit of brown nosing to stephen timms hoping he would be compassionate ect.hope i win this if i do it could help other people with their problems.will keep you informed and have recommended you to my workmates if they have a problem with this stupid system.thanks again.xxx

j daniels
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2010 :  19:29:53  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi splashin just to keep you updated seen my mp today he thinks that it is a tax credit mistake.also recieved letter from office of stephen timms saying he is activley getting involved with my case and will be contacting me in the near future.had 2 new claim forms sent to me today.sent one back so fingers crossed we might get a result.xxxx

j daniels
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2010 :  21:25:02  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi Katkin

Thats great news !! You should hear pretty quickly about your fresh claim. Keep us updated and bloody well done for getting these people involved.



Splashin
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 19/03/2010 :  21:31:02  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
hi hopefully other people will be able to do something about the shsmbles that is tax credit feel free to pass anything on to the other poor souls who may need help.xxxx

j daniels
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katkin11
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
21 Posts

Posted - 13/04/2010 :  16:54:58  Show Profile Send katkin11 a Private Message
please see new post

j daniels
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