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patriciahirstpink
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector


28 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2010 :  13:58:21  Show Profile Send patriciahirstpink a Private Message
how long does adjudicator take to decide? i sent info in sept 09 and have not heard anything

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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2010 :  16:48:13  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hello patriciahirstpink

Difficult to say really, there are no rules regarding timescales now at this stage. I suppose its is all down to the amount of cases that are now at this stage, being worked by that team.
You sent letter Recorded Delivery to the adjudicator I hope, it is a little unusual to not have acknowledgment from that office saying that they look into the dispute.
As long you have proof that your letter arrived at that office, then I would just wait.



Splashin
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samthe
Mod



341 Posts

Posted - 19/02/2010 :  20:23:59  Show Profile Send samthe a Private Message
If you've no acknowledgement you must chase them. Once they have the case logged, it is apparently taking around 12 months to get a result.
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patriciahirstpink
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



28 Posts

Posted - 20/02/2010 :  14:09:56  Show Profile Send patriciahirstpink a Private Message
i have had acknowledgement but didn't know when i would next hear. thank you
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Clare Perry
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
1 Posts

Posted - 20/02/2010 :  15:29:26  Show Profile Send Clare Perry a Private Message
I have been waiting 18 months, I keep chasing and I understand there is a backlog.
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 20/02/2010 :  15:56:11  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
[ If you have got an acknowledgment for your letters then I wouldn't worry they will get around to your case eventually.
Their must be a big backlog now at this stage for disputes.
18 months is quite a long time to be waiting though I must admit.
What we have to be careful with now is, if there is such a big backlog, pressure on the staff working these cases will be immense. Hopefully they will be consistent with working the cases to their best ability ensuring everybody's case is looked at properly.



Splashin
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  09:15:15  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
Hi All,

I have just recieved a letter from the adjudicators office saying my case will be decided on the 3rd of March, To be honest I didnt even know it was with them,
my local MPS underling visted us twice said (we had a nice house) this is about 3 years ago and told us he would ask Dame someone or other to look into it and this could take about 18 months, we hadnt heard since so we just left it and now this letter has arived, outlinning why we should pay back the overpayment.
I have emailed Paula about this and I know she is very busy so can someone just answer this question through here please. once the adjudicator decides is that the end or is this Dame still looking into it,
My problem with all of my claim is that they are claiming I was overpaid for 3 years, but for each of those 3 years they have told me we have earned 3 different amounts for each of those years 9 different figures for the 3 years in total,
when I have said this to them they keep saying that that is irelevant as I should of apealed at that time, and so even if I was entitled to the money tough as the appeal date has long gone. Why should we pay back money that we may have been entitiled

Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:19:45
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  14:43:46  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hello Ericabro,

Even if you are not successful on the 3rd March and the Adjudicator still says you must pay back the overpayment, you can still dispute again, only if you find new evidence to back up your case. I can see that really you don't even know what reasons were given for the original dispute or understand the explanation given by HMRC about how the overpayment occurred.
My advice would be to send a SARN to HMRC and get your paperwork. The years that the overpayment covered what tax years were they?
You say that 9 incomes where used over the 3 years which apparently caused the overpayment?? Did you make changes to income during the tax years or was it just end of year income given?
When an overpayment covers 3 years due to income, I always become suspicious that a fault has been made at the declaration period. Sometimes if changes are made during this "Declaration" period it can effect previous year, current year and next years claim. And this is certainly no fault of your own.
How much do they say you owe?
With regards to appealing. Appealing to tax credits is in respect of not getting the correct entitlement in the first place and Yes this does have a time limit. You did get the right entitlement from them to start, so you can't appeal. What you can do though is DISPUTE, disputing that your overpayment was not created by you.
If you feel you did everything that was expected of you for Tax Credits to pay you correctly, then you need to prove this. And I do agree with you, why should claimants pay back money if they have complied with HMRC fully, by submitting correct information as requested only to have it messed up somewhere down the line by HMRC. If I was to send my end of year income details in and all my details were checked and correct on the form, then I get a new award back for the new tax year. I would expect them to be able to calculate my award correctly.


Splashin
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  15:18:11  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
Hi, The years they are talking about are years 2003/4 overpaid 1,976.32. 2004/5 overpaid 3,653.26. 2005/6 overpaid 668.14. we did apply for all the data as Paula had advised eventually we were sent reams of paper that made no sense with one word on each line with things like data, enter,total. we did also get paragrahs of other peoples private information sent to us in among ours, when we recieved copies of phone calls several calls were missing so we have been in dispute over this for 6 years. please any help would be appreciated


Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:20:22
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  15:31:45  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi ericabro

I presume you still have all the reams of paper??? Can I also ask were all the overpayment's occurring on the Working Tax Credit?
The amount you give for 04/05 is the exact same amount you would get for WTC if you where under the lower threshold which I think was around 5600. There are very few claimants who get maximum WTC, which makes me think this is where the fault is. The evidence will be in the SAR paperwork (if you still have it) I can give you pointers as where to look and what to look for. If you no longer have it, what do you have with regards to Awards etc.

Splashin
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  16:04:06  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
Hi Yes we do still have it all about a ream with lots of the boxes blacked out?? it was working tax credit and child tax credit. at one time I was working 3 jobsand my husband was of sick and then I started my own little business, to be honest we couldnt keep track of wages because I changed jobs and took temporary jobs to keep the wolf from the door



Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:20:52
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  16:34:30  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hello ericabro

The first thing I would do is concentrate on finding out the facts about the years in question with regards to household income. By contacting your local tax office and asking what records they have got for income and tax paid. Even though you may have been in different jobs over a period of time, the employer's who you worked for will have given your income details to them, so they can claim back money on there own tax bills. They will have the accumulated totals. You also need to let me know about your husband. Prior to him becoming sick was he working? Did he any "income" for that period of time he was sick? Did he claim any other benefits anywhere else? What date did you start your business and where you also employed when this happened? Did you have a S/A number for Self Assessment on the new business and did you submit any figures for this new business to Inland Revenue? Did you inform HMRC about becoming self employed at any time?

I know there are a lot of questions to answer here, but it will help me gather a little more background on what may have happened to the system. In your SAR paperwork, if you haven't numbered each page pls do that now, it makes things so much easier to understand. There will be award notices screen prints, there may be 4 pages to 1 award notice, find the ones from the years in question and put them into tax year order. 03/04,04/05,05/06. Make a note of date issued and amount awarded for WTC and CTC and also make note of any income showing and who this was for.

Hopefully by working through the SAR we can begin to understand how and why this overpayment occurred and who is a fault.
For you to successfully dispute, you need solid firm ground to build on. If you make assumptions as to what may have been earned and this is used as part of your dispute and HMRC find out that they have different amounts on their systems, you will fall at the first hurdle.



Splashin
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  17:07:09  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
Hi We have the details of wages as we asked the tax office for them and recieved them in march 08, they are as follows
03/04 there figure is 16,175. our figure is 17,676
04/05 there figure 16,175. our figure is 16,944
05/06 there figure 24,062 our figure is 23,198
also noticed they say in there letter that we declared 17,466 for year 04/05 but they decided to go of previous year.
on year 05/06 they admit to adding a extra 100 but that doesnt make a huge difference to the overpayment.



Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:21:28
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  17:18:15  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
when my husband was of sick he broke his leg at work but because he had only worked for them for 4 months he only got statutory sick pay, I started the business in in january 03 and we told them in march and then again in july 03 our accountant informed them and told them that this would affect what we were paid. working our way through the award paperwork now


Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:21:56
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  17:43:24  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by ericabro

Hi We have the details of wages as we asked the tax office for them and received them in march 08, they are as follows
03/04 there figure is 16,175. our figure is 17,676
04/05 there figure 16,175. our figure is 16,944
05/06 there figure 24,062 our figure is 23,198
also noticed they say in there letter that we declared 17,466 for year 04/05 but they decided to go of previous year.
on year 05/06 they admit to adding a extra 100 but that doesn't make a huge difference to the overpayment.

ericabro



Hi Ericabro,

There is your first system problem showing. A change has been applied to your claim whilst in the "declaration period" causing it to apply same incomes and circumstances to both 03/04 & 04/05 tax years.
There will be pages of screen prints, showing App1 & App2, work details,children,income,bank details etc. Does your name ever swap over to the other applicants. For example, it starts with your husband showing as App1, but then you swap over to the App1 position and hubby goes to your place App2??
Look at the payment schedules, these will show you patterns of payments and dates paid and also show up any irregularities. I expect it to show, quite normal for 03/04 but then you got lump sum and payments increased from then on. Can you recall any lump sums? And if you can, did you ever question them with HMRC?

Can I ask how many children you had on the claim and were there any disabilities in the family?



Splashin
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  21:22:47  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
Hi, Yes we did question the lump sum of 1,319.25 paid on 24.09.03 and you are right about data changing ie my name and his NI Number, on some pages he is applicant 1 and on other he is applicant 2 but with my info and his NInumber, we have 3 kids between us but only claimed for 1 as the other were working and not living with us. there are no disabilities within the family


Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:22:24
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 21/02/2010 :  22:20:38  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi ericabro,

Okay now I do defiantly think your claim has been messed up on the system, through no fault of your own. Whatever change was made to the system around the time of the first lump sum. So now you can start to build up a case file for your dispute. You have already got one with the Names changing from App1 to App2. This should never happen, you are either App1 or App2. Now the next thing to look at is payments schedules. I have worked out rough amount as to what you should have been awarded for the 3 years. You need to take this amount and add to the said overpayment amount for the same year, then see if that corresponds with payment schedules, keep an eye on the dates and make sure you only add payments that show POSTED. This was your entitlement for the years in question.
03/04 = 1552.45 + o/p = 3528.77
04/05 = 1812.45 + o/p = 5465.71
05/06 = 545.00 + o/p = 1213.14
These totals at the end are what HMRC are saying has been paid to you does this tally ?


Splashin
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 22/02/2010 :  00:11:16  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
Yes I think it does when you take of money they have already recovered



Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:22:59
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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 22/02/2010 :  12:45:48  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Hi ericabro

What I mean is, the amount paid into your accounts from HMRC, does it match up with the amounts they say you have been paid.

Splashin
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samthe
Mod



341 Posts

Posted - 22/02/2010 :  20:10:46  Show Profile Send samthe a Private Message
Sorry to butt in here, but ericabro asked whether an adverse decision by Adjudicator is the end of the matter. Hopefully what splashin is guiding you to will resolve the matter but if it doesn't, the answer is NO - you can ask your MP to refer the case to the Parliamentary Ombudsman even if the Adjudicator has sided with HMRC.
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ericabro
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
31 Posts

Posted - 22/02/2010 :  21:18:17  Show Profile Send ericabro a Private Message
I think thats what the MP did when he said he was refering it to a Dame .... cant remember her name, that was the year before last. He said at that time that we had had our chance for appeal and had lost so there was nothing he could do. So can I appeal again or not, is there any way I can take all my paperwork to someone who knows what they are looking at?? for advice



Edited by - ericabro on 28/04/2010 16:23:36
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