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splashin
Rank; Really should become a politician



Belize
730 Posts

Posted - 14/11/2007 :  19:42:33  Show Profile Send splashin a Private Message
Alan

I do believe that it might of been a different result should the evidence be provided prior to the hearing. I mean thats the way Civil Court procedures are, so I would presume similar practises here. This is just a presumption I have never been to court myself or heard from someone who has provided evidence prior to the hearing this way, so can not comment on the outcome. But I'm sure in time we shall find out.



Splashin
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 15/11/2007 :  08:20:00  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by splashin

Alan

I do believe that it might of been a different result should the evidence be provided prior to the hearing. I mean thats the way Civil Court procedures are, so I would presume similar practises here. This is just a presumption I have never been to court myself or heard from someone who has provided evidence prior to the hearing this way, so can not comment on the outcome. But I'm sure in time we shall find out.



Splashin



Splash, this hasn't been Sammy's experience, and HMRC have admitted that these cases are not hearings and should be the end of the road. We will hopefully know more soon, when Tracy Gale's team have received Paula's evidence and responded to it. Perhaps 'scores on doors' are a factor and judges have to deal with a certain number of such cases in a certain time? Sorry, I don't have answers and can only speculate until we hear more.

(reply moved down from quote section)


Agent Smith: I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it.


Edited by - Ali M-W on 15/11/2007 08:21:21
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sammy
Rank; Really should become a politician



690 Posts

Posted - 19/11/2007 :  01:03:30  Show Profile Send sammy a Private Message
Well, I thought a court heard evidence I knew I could not lose. HMRC told lies, yet I was not allowed to show they did. So in the event I could not win. It is all well and good making statements until you have seen it in operation (splashin) that is not how civil courts work when dealing with hmrc. They are are not an ordinary plaintiff.

I suppose in hindsight I could have used a fancy solicitor but the cost would have been more than they 'claimed' Even a fancy solicitor would need to find faults with their (hmrc) certificate of debt, if he/she could not I would have still lost.

I'm not really stupid, I thought I could win with overwhelming evidence in my favour...but,, ha not when facing hmrc

Edited by - sammy on 19/11/2007 01:07:01
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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 19/11/2007 :  16:57:03  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sammy

Well, I thought a court heard evidence I knew I could not lose. HMRC told lies, yet I was not allowed to show they did. So in the event I could not win. It is all well and good making statements until you have seen it in operation (splashin) that is not how civil courts work when dealing with hmrc. They are are not an ordinary plaintiff.

I suppose in hindsight I could have used a fancy solicitor but the cost would have been more than they 'claimed' Even a fancy solicitor would need to find faults with their (hmrc) certificate of debt, if he/she could not I would have still lost.

I'm not really stupid, I thought I could win with overwhelming evidence in my favour...but,, ha not when facing hmrc




I know this is little or even no consolation to you my Friend, but I too thought that you would win. In fact I was sure that you would win, and was shocked when you didn't.

Geordie: Ootside! Yeandme!
English: Let us settle this matter in a civilised manner. Man to man like gentlemen.

Geordie: Gissies tetties and bagies.
English: I wish to order pork, potatoes and a little turnip, please.
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Ali M-W
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3558 Posts

Posted - 23/11/2007 :  07:53:24  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
I believe in the next few days that our grand new webmaster is going to put a piece on our website from Lisa about what worked for her when it was absolutely too late to stop the court action. I'd still recommend stopping the case before it starts, but it seems that it is possible to have some kind of say in certain situations. Whether this will always work is untested, but it must give us some hope. I'll also need to contact an old poster on this site, Underdog, to see how he had his case dismissed, because if there is a way of fighting back with HMRC, then we need to know about it.

Agent Smith: I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it.

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Alan the Geordie
Admin



3032 Posts

Posted - 23/11/2007 :  13:15:37  Show Profile Send Alan the Geordie a Private Message
Yes, Underdog is one of our success stories.

It would be nice to hear from him again.

Where are you underdog,how are you my Friend, are you receiving me? Come in please Underdog.

Geordie: Worbairn's hacky mucky.
English: The baby needs a wash.

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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 01/12/2007 :  10:17:48  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Must chase him up. He was pretty switched-on and a decent enough guy. And he won his case!

And on the subject of court, I contacted the Community Legal Service the other day about these premature court cases and what we can do, and I'm awaiting a response.

Agent Smith: I hate this place, this zoo, this prison, this reality, whatever you want to call it.

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missfoxee
Rank; Hector Tax Inspector



United Kingdom
8 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2009 :  09:22:25  Show Profile Send missfoxee a Private Message
HMMMM dawn primarelo.........one "other" MP that I wrote to, so I can conclude that I will not get a reply then
as the song says "british justice, there aint no F'ing british justice" (courtesy of a punk group back in the 80's )

United We Stand......Divided We Fall

May We All Count As One Voice.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2009 :  07:57:30  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Lol, Dawn Primarolo was Paymaster General presiding over Tax Credits in the early years when the "system", would you believe, was even worse than it is now. Tax Credit Casualties have a long history of trying to get some modicum of justice out of her. Did you know that she was/is a Labour Link Minister - supported by the unions - and was/is married to a high ranking UNISON man (different surnames)? That she was once called "Red Dawn" for her stance on the LEFT of Labour? She isn't red now - probably a garish mauve or true blue. Couldn't write off tax credit overpayments as she needed to "protect the public purse" (well protected now, isn't it?). Think you might enjoy the following article, courtesy of the campaigning Portsmouth News:

Minister labelled aloof, evasive and elusive after snub

Dawn Primarolo

By Emily Pykett
Political Editor

A LABOUR minister has snubbed News readers by cancelling a press conference during a visit to the city.

Paymaster General Dawn Primarolo, pictured, spent two hours at Portsmouth Guildhall praising voluntary and community workers for their links with the council and other organisations.

And The News was asked along to highlight her launch of Portsmouth's Pathfinder report, which sets out a blueprint for how 500 local charities and support groups can help to offer public services.

But at the appointed time, Ms Primarolo – a Minister of State for HM Treasury paid £99,908 a year by taxpayers – stayed behind a closed door.

Meanwhile, a red-faced Westminster aide claimed she had 'suddenly run out of time' and told The News, and two radio stations, interviews could not be granted despite agreements made in advance.

A News reporter and photographer were then denied entry to a reception in the Lord Mayor's Banqueting Hall, a venue also paid for by ratepayers.

Here Ms Primarolo, who controls tax, customs, pensions and wages, addressed and mingled with people from groups like the Salvation Army, Age Concern and the Anglican Diocese of Portsmouth.

Portsmouth social worker Alison Myers-Ward said she was not surprised that Ms Primarolo avoided the press.

Her lobby group, Tax Credits Casualties, has been demanding to meet the Paymaster General over tax credit fiascos that have catapulted some parents into poverty.

'She is very aloof, evasive and elusive,' said Ms Myers-Ward.

'We tried to set up a meeting with her but got fobbed off. We have been abysmally treated.'

The mother of two was so incensed by Ms Primarolo's failure to respond that she has been inspired to pen spoof lyrics to the Tony Christie hit song, (Is This The Way To) Amarillo, entitled 'Is This The Way To Primarolo'.

A council spokesman said The News was barred from the reception because it was only for people wearing pre-arranged name tags, but insisted a full invitation had been issued.

A spokeswoman for Mrs Primarolo said there had been no formally organised press conference, but she had hoped to speak to some press including The News.

This had to be cancelled as meetings had overrun and she had a prior engagement elsewhere.

ALISON MYER-WARD'S ALTERNATE VERSION...

Show me the Way to Primarolo

Sha lala lala lalala, Sha lala lala lalala, Sha lala lala lalala,
Now the truth is dawning,
Tax credit bills arrive each morning,
Bills for overpayments,
Even though we're innocent claimants.
Ev'ry single city knows too clearly that
Threats and debts ain't pretty – what is she playing at?

Is this the way to Primarolo?
Or are we victims going it solo?
Dreaming dreams of Primarolo
Sorting the mess she's made for me.
Show us the way to Primarolo,
We ask to see her, she says, 'Oh no!'
Crying over Primarolo,
And the huge 'debt' that threatens me.

Sha lala lala lalala, Sha lala lala lalala,
Sha lala lala lalala, Primarolo hides from me.

The Ombudsman is saying,
There's no way we should be repaying,
Which is why she fears us –
Our Claimant Group that's coming to see her…
To put right this torture, we've a strong campaign,
And it keeps us going through the stress and pain.

Is this the way to Primarolo, or are we victims going it solo?
Dreaming dreams of Primarolo
Sorting the mess she's made for me.
Show us the way to Primarolo,
We ask to see her, she says, 'Oh no!'
Crying over Primarolo,
And the huge 'debt' that threatens me.

Sha lala lala lalala, Sha lala lala lalala,
Sha lala lala lalala, Primarolo hides from me

emily.pykett@thenews.co.uk

Last Updated: 25 January 2007 2:49 PM

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Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2009 :  08:03:11  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
I'm not a big fan of Nu Labour. First Dawn Primarolo. Then Jane Kennedy. Now the Brown-appeasing, Timid Timms (Stephen Timms). Primarolo was asked by David Laws to resign over the tax credit mess she presided over. She didn't. Kennedy announced quietly at the end of one summer's sitting that many tax credits had been illegally recovered - though she phrased it a little differently. As you may know, she resigned through differences of opinion with Gorgon Brown. Now we have Timms, rising like a phoenix from the ashes. Probably a nice enough bloke, and supposedly a Christian Socialist (well, maybe he is a Christian), but we are yet to see him do anything remotely useful.

Anyway, huge thanks for getting those letters off. Hope your efforts and hard work will inspire others to do likewise!

Let's tell 'em!

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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Ali M-W
Mod



3558 Posts

Posted - 05/10/2009 :  08:05:18  Show Profile Send Ali M-W a Private Message
Here's Timms' contact details:

Stephen Timms MP, Financial Secretary to the Treasury, House of Commons, London, SW1A 0AA, phone 020 7219 4000, fax 020 7219 2949
stephen@stephentimms.org.uk




Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.
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