| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| sebadoh |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 20:23:36
I received a letter this morning informing me that i have to pay in full the amount of £1,522.66 by 24th july, or they will commence court proceedings.
This dates back to 2003 when my ex husband was made redundant and put on job seekers allowance. I always informed them straight away of any change in circumstances, when my ex returned to work, pay rises etc etc.
They stopped my tax credits for over a year to pay back some of the money i owe. I only started receiving tax credits again in 2006, when my 2nd child was born. 2 weeks later my husband left me, and i informed them i was to become a single parent, and on income support, which i`m still on now. I appealed against the amount i supposedly owed and lost. I agreed to repay £10 amonth, but never received the direct debit form. At the time i was going through a messy divorce, and coping alone with 2 children, so i completley forgot about this, untill the letter landed at my door this morning. I`m sick with worry, as there is no way i can pay the full amount back in one go, not with 2 kids to support and a mortgage.
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| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| sebadoh |
Posted - 15/08/2008 : 11:12:33
Hello again,
I received my sar documents, along with some other lady details, how is that confidential for you. I`m still waiting for the disc. I contacted my mp who replied straight away saying he will look into the matter for me.
I just received a letter that the tc office sent to my mp, and he has sent me a copy. Basically a break down of where the overpayments have occured. Basically i have to pay back the money, and to call the payment helpline to set up repayment.
I dont no where to go from here now. |
| missfroy2 |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 09:37:24
Non return of the renewals papers (which this sounds like it is) are notoriously difficult to get written off.
However, in your case you have an additional factor. Have a look at the new COP 26 (the guide which tells you about disputing). In it you will see some information about exceptional circumstances.
The new COP 26 test is looking at whether the claimant and HMRC met their responsibilities. If this overpayment is all caused by failure to return the forms then prima facie HMRC have met their responsibilities and you have failed yours.
However, once you have established who has met/failed responsibilities, guidance to staff tells them to consider whether there were any exceptional circumstances. This is where the flooding becomes relevant.
So, send a dispute letter, acknowledging you failed to return the forms and asking for it to be written off under the exceptional circumstances ground. Include the info above that someone posted from Jane Kennedy.
There may be other considerations - when did you flood, how close was it to this, did you speak with HMRC at any point, did you have to leave your home, was your paperwork destroyed.
Good luck
MF2 |
| chrisp |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 23:52:58
Do you actualy owe them anything?
Going from my experience they say you have an overpayment, they do not tell you why, don't you think they owe you an explanation? So ask for it, you won't get it but that is par for the course, you will be told you should have known it was wrong when your payments changed at a guess.
If you want to accept their blunt assertion that you owe the £XXXX, then you owe me £XXX,XXX,XXX.00, please get in touch via email for payment details, if you don't pay by 15 July I will take you to court and due to the law as it stands you will not have a leg to stand on, Legalised extortion, Well if it's good for HMRC why not me?
I could be on a winner here, Brown and cronies certainly are, one thing for sure he doesn't need a pension plan.
I |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 17:46:47
sebadoh
This is just a thought.
You said; "Saturday i was all ready to give in and pay them back monthly just to get them off my back".
I don't think you should offer to repay anything until you find out exactly where you stand with all of this, BUT if you do have any spare cash why not put it into a savings account where it will earn you some interest, then IF you do have to make a repayment you'll have the money there ready.
Maybe you won't have to pay anything back at all - or at least nothing like as much as HMRC say you owe them now - in which case you'll have some spending money!
You may also like to use some of it to make a small donation to our fighting fund once you know where where you stand? Every little helps - as the old lady said when she piddled in the sea!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 11:55:36
quote:
Originally posted by sebadoh
After feeling very worried and having a good old cry, i have taken your good advice, and have sent off the tc846 form, and have just finished writing a letter to my mp.
Next i`m going to get the SAR underway, is there a fee for this? If so when do you pay this?
Saturday i was all ready to give in and pay them back monthly just to get them off my back as i was just getting to stressed about it all. But after finding this great site, i feel i have the strength to at least fight. Let`s hope i get somewhere, i`m not holding my breath though.
Thank you for your kind words about us!
There is no fee for the SAR - it is all free - and the form for it is part of our Dispute Pack which you will find on our main site. Click on "Home" at the top of this page to get to the main site & you'll find it all in there.
Remember that when you post anything to HMRC to use Recorded Delivery and keep a copy for yourself. Also keep a record of all your expnses for postage & stationery, phone calls & travelling expenses that you incur during your dispute.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| sebadoh |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 11:43:19
After feeling very worried and having a good old cry, i have taken your good advice, and have sent off the tc846 form, and have just finished writing a letter to my mp.
Next i`m going to get the SAR underway, is there a fee for this? If so when do you pay this?
Saturday i was all ready to give in and pay them back monthly just to get them off my back as i was just getting to stressed about it all. But after finding this great site, i feel i have the strength to at least fight. Let`s hope i get somewhere, i`m not holding my breath though. |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 30/06/2008 : 18:56:40
"HMRC is the most frustrating game of Super Mario never written". Very eloquent, Chrisp - I like that! It also reminds me why I have an Avatar from the Matrix films - because of the way the fight with HMRC feels unreal, not based on any worldly rules we know, set up so they always win and we always lose, and like a malignant computer game/Sci Fi scenario. Whilst we would all prefer never to have been tricked by the empty promise of "Money with your name on it", there is a certain satisfaction to winning and overcoming all those underhand tactics HMRC use, eg. withholding the very data which proves you right. I look forward to hearing in due course that you have won your case, although don't expect things to be resolved quickly. Do keep us posted, and best of luck, Sebadoh.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| chrisp |
Posted - 30/06/2008 : 01:05:24
Phone the help line, state your problem, get their reply, put the phone down.
Now press redial, state your problem in exactly the same way, it helps to have written it down and simply read it to them. You will get two entirely different answers to the same set of facts.
Don't forget they are reading the same information from the same flawed system yet the introduce their own interpretation on the facts in front of them, therein lies the problem with such a complex system.
Try redial again but be agressive, try it again but be sympathetic and friendly, try it again with humility, it really is funny how their answer differs so much factually depending upon your tone of inquiry.
Bottom line it is a game, you need a homosapien at the other end of the phone, you need to get wise on their system quickly, you need some bigguns on your side, MP's CAB, etc are good but they are being treated with contempt these days, Press, get a reporter for a daily interested, they will contact HMRC press office for comment and at that point you win.
It is soul destroying, I have been there, you know you did everything they told you to do, all within their rules but it is still your fault, you should haverealised etc.....
You need to stick to their rules and be like a dog with a bone, never let it go till you win, There is light at the end honest, remember Super Mario, how you got to that particular place in the level and couldn't get past it. How sweet was it when you finally completed it. HMRC is the most frustrating game of Super Mario never written, however, you are the princess, go get em girl, the princess always wins in the end, she has to or all the kids have sleepless nights. |
| familytaxcredit |
Posted - 30/06/2008 : 00:49:17
hmrc do not act reasonable, that is a fundemental flaw in the system. Ole brown eyes set it up. Basically he promised underpaid workers a tax cut, he was boxing clever he knew he could pass the buck down-stream, the electorate were none the wiser. He and the labour shambolic government created the mess, yet he and his minnions escape scott free, (excuse the punn) He claims full employment, everybody is working
Err, nope they are not, yet it looks good on newsnight stats. Many many people are working for nothing. He will be exposed for his deceit, this is 'small fry' no one gives a **** about the low paid, hence no bad publicity about his regime regards tax credits from the media,
(except fraud and error...lol~) All lumped together as fraudsters
Yet as soon as the papers got hold of his inheritence tax stuff (300k houses) they had a field day...what did he do? relented of course and scrapped.
It is bent beyond reason how a labour party can continue in government.
Trouble is the tories will be even more vicious...I can guarantee that.
Labour will be out of government any time soon, perhaps even before there time is run.
Just look at the cabinet, what a set of ****s...I'm lost for words
oops, rant over...good luck, do not pay them anything back |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 29/06/2008 : 20:06:46
You need to forget about 2Appealing" I think & start "Disputing" & "Complaining".
We here at TCC understand & believe that you have done everything that could "reasonably" have been expected of yo and that you have been - typically - buggered about by the idiots at HMRC.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| sebadoh |
Posted - 29/06/2008 : 19:58:52
Hi, thank you for all your help so far.
I did appeal back in 2006, but i got a letter in july 06 saying having looked at the information we hold and that you provided, i consider that you should of been aware that your payments were wrong. You did`nt tell us when your income rose above £15,133. I did inform them of every change.I`ve got 4 sets of payments, totalling to £1, 522.66, i phoned so many different departments at the time and they all gave me different figures as to what i owe back. When i phoned yesterday to set up paying some money back monthly, they had no record of me previously phoning, yet another man did. This is what makes me laugh, everyone tells you different things, i followed the rules and this is what happens. I will take your advice, and try and be strong. Thank you all. |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 23:42:05
Hi Sebadoh - welcome to the club!
Chrisp is giving you sound advice - he's one who won his case (although there's been a slight hiccup recently)- and I'm another!
Follow Robert's advice & download our Appeals Pack and get copies of all your paperwork etc from HMRC then get your Dispute underway.
SERIOUSLY think about getting the media involved in your case - it does work!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 23:35:24
Hi Sebadoh - you can win this. I just did. Alan and others here, too. Chrisp is right - HMRC are complete bullies. They are not above writing to people whose worlds have fallen apart through their incompetence, apologising for causing distress and still demanding the money back! They will even send a 'consolatory payment' if you catch them out having really messed up - often at the same time as demanding thousands back! But you can win this. You just have to stick to what you believe in, and not allow them to bully you.
Do have a look at www.taxCC.org if you haven't already. It might be a bit overwhelming at first, but you only need take things a stage at a time, and if you do get stuck, or you feel you want to check something out, do use the 'contact us' section of the website to get in touch, and/or post here. There are a lot of common problems coming through, but also a lot of quite original ones! Paula is always very helpful, although she is very much in demand these days, so you may need to leae her a message and she will then get back to you. If there isn't a form or a process for what you need, Paula (aka PJ) will soon have one figured out!
Looking at what you have written, it sounds as though you are worrying because you agreed to pay back £10 a month, yet they didn't set up the direct debit, and now you are worried they will demand it all back at once - is that right? The first thing I am thinking here is, did you just believe you had to sign up to paying this back, or did you get a proper chance to have the overpayment explained to you and dispute anything you weren't happy about? Just because you agreed to pay money back - and the same goes for those in the process of paying or who have already settled - doesn't mean to say you can't challenge them after the event and complain that you were never given the opportunity!
Have a read of the site, and please don't let them take what very little money you have. Your family needs and deserves it more, believe me. Fight it!
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| chrisp |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 23:18:08
Do you actually owe the alledged overpayment in the first place. Question?
Unfortunately you need to become an expert in HMRC policy, rules, and their software errors, you actually need to be more able to understand their policy than their own employees.
Then you need to point out their own errors to them, when they refute that you need to get your MP and CAB involved and when they give you the big 'V' go to the press, get them interested in running your story and you are on a winner. No way do they want their incompetance in public, as soon as the press contacts their press dept, you will win your case. Simple as. Sorry but fact of life in this ferkered up state we live in, they are more concerned with bad press than any torment they give you or your family.
You have to go through the stages and all the personal grief in between, do you think any of the high wage managers at HMRC give a flying ferk about the stress they are causing you, they are there for their New Year Honours for achieving their targets. GET ANGRY, Get very angry, fight them at every opportunity, Never accept a word they say in print or verbally, their software is worse than any Microsoft abominaion ever created.
You fight them lass, you got the strength to do it, they are bullies pure and simple, stand up to them use their system and they fold, much like the ones in the playground. |
| Robert |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 22:30:06
Hi...sebadoh
have you disputed this amount they say you owe??
If Not.. it is time to download the dispute pack, you can find this by clicking on the home link at the top off the page..get a Sarn request going, this will give you the paperwork from your claim,and recordings of any calls, you made to the TCO office.
also get your MP involved, and advice from the CAB, while you are disputing this no money, or threats off court action, ect can be made against you..
more will be along to give advice..
The truth is out there.. GO get it......Non Illigitamus Carborundum
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