| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Willow |
Posted - 16/04/2008 : 14:32:24
....and at the beginning of what I see could be a long journey. Thank heavens this forum is here.....
So far I've been one of the lucky people for whom Tax Credits has not been a problem. Until 2 weeks ago when I called them to tell them that my partners oldest daughter aged 14 had moved in with us and was living with us permanently.
A week later I received two Final Tax Credits Decision notices - one for 2005/6 and another for 2006/7. The notices stated that in total my partner and I had been overpaid by £8770 during those two years as, "You were not responsible for any qualifying children or young people."
Except that our daughter born in 2004 was playing in the same room when I opened the notices.
I immediately called the helpline and the operator informed me that it was obvioulsy a "mistake made by head office" and that someone would call me back in a couple of days. I hadn't yet found this forum and being the trusting sort waited for the call. You will not be surprised to learn that a call never came. So I called again last week to be told that a note had been put on the system for someone to call me, and that all I could do was wait. So then I went to the local HMRC office and went to the Tax Cerdits enquiries office. Useless. I was offered the use of their "hotline" to the helpline, which I used and where I was told very firmly that I was in a large queue of people who wanted to talk to someone and that I shouldn't expect a call for some weeks.... well, at least I may have had an honest answer from someone....
I have read as much of the information on this forum and on the website as i can but, sorry, I still need to ask a question or two of you all rather than diving in.
At this stage, where I have been informed in writing that I have been overpaid due to not having any children and so they will write to me soon and advise how I can pay them back, should I be writing a letter? To whom? Any advice that can be offered will be gratefully recieved (and I have read the forum answers for other cases so please don't anyone go to th trouble of repeating some of the info about using the media and my MP - I don't want you to go over old ground again!  ) |
| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 11:31:02
quote:
Originally posted by Willow
Thought so - and my partner still thinks I'm just overly paranoid. Not so, just getting to see how this all works. My slew ofcomplaint letters and copies to my MP and another letter to JK will be in the post later today. Also been in touch with the reporter to let her know that there hasn't yet been a satisfactory resolution.
Aye, ye've definitely got the hang of this now Bonny Lass!!
We're all proud of ye!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Willow |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 11:23:32
Another developmen - it's like live breaking news here - 3 final decision notices have just been delivered by the postman - one for 2004/05 which correctly shows our daughter, as do the final decision notices for 2005/06 and 2006/07. No other letters but evrything looks to be correct. I will be checking amounts etc when I get some time this afternoon. It obviously appears that something is gong on somewhere........ |
| Willow |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 10:48:04
Thought so - and my partner still thinks I'm just overly paranoid. Not so, just getting to see how this all works. My slew ofcomplaint letters and copies to my MP and another letter to JK will be in the post later today. Also been in touch with the reporter to let her know that there hasn't yet been a satisfactory resolution. |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 10:32:10
>>so does that mean that someone somewhere will be asking for this money back at some stage?<<
Very probably, so earn as much interest from it while you can!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Willow |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 10:04:22
Ali - no response from him other than his involvement when I have requested it.
This morning though I have just checked my bank account and a large deposit has been made...I doubt I have a mystery benefactor so it must be tax credits money. I'll wait and see if anything comes through the post and I'm currently waiiting to get a call to the Helpline answered to see what this is.....
Ok, my call has just been answered and it would appear that the Appeal is still ongoing - what's been deposited in my account is the backed dated monies that I have not received since April 2008. One of the computer generated letters received last week stated that we did not have an entitlement for 2008/09.....so does that mean that someone somewhere will be asking for this money back at some stage? |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 02/07/2008 : 05:56:27
Yeah, but it's "possible" too that he's gay! And/or she is...
Did Clartybank Reform School have French teachers and grand pianos? You surprise me, Alan... Next you'll be telling us you learned Latin.
At our Comprehensive, culture was something gelatinous in a petri dish. You'd be amazed what microscopic organisms grew from our hands. We did have a French teacher (no grand piano or religious assembly). As recall, she was very stressed. Especially when the whole class went awol and hid in the library.
Willow, have you had any response from your MP on all this?
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 12:32:50
I agree - that was an excellent post from MissFroy2. I wish I'd had her education. 
As it is, I attended the Clartybank Burned-Down Reform School and can only describe the differences between “possible” and “probable” thus;
"The beautiful young French teacher is lying naked on top of the grand piano in the music room.
The music teacher is walking towards her while unfastening his trousers.
It is “possible” that he intends to pee on the piano .... " 
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Willow |
Posted - 01/07/2008 : 11:12:44
Thank you MissFroy2, excellent description of the differences between and appeal and a dispute. |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 30/06/2008 : 18:50:08
Thanks, Miss Froy - this is really helpful. I'll add this page to my 'favourites' as many's the time this question's been asked, and this is about as good an answer as I have seen. We've been asked by UNISON Welfare for some info on claimants' rights (they are inundated, it seems, with overpaid members wondering what on earth to do, and their wits' end), so this is very helpful. May drop you a line sometime for some more 'top tips', if that's okay! Thanks.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| missfroy2 |
Posted - 30/06/2008 : 07:59:45
It is understandably confusing for those unfamiliar with HMRC's appeal/disputes procedures.
I don't think there is a blur between appeals and disputes (providing you know what they are of course) - it is very clear that appeals are for entitlement issues - there may or may not be an overpayment in appeal cases.
Disputes are where there is legally an overpayment (howsoever caused). You are asking HMRC not to recover an overpayment which under statute they have the power to do. In these cases there is no Appeal because the entitlement is correct and there is an overpayment.
Most of the cases on these boards fall into the latter category, people have received to much tax credit but are asking HMRC not to recover it because HMRC made an error and the claimant thought the award was correct (under the old test).
In most cases I have seen there is no question that there is an overpayment - it is then recovery of that overpayment that is at issue.
In appeal cases - you are actually challenging that an overpayment exists i.e. you are saying that your entitlement is wrong, which if corrected would increase your award (and possibly get rid of an overpayment if one exists).
The benefit of an appeal is that it is taken out of HMRC's hands and into the Social Security tribunal.
Your case is very clear cut in my opinion - you are in an Appeal and should not dispute. The two are very distinct.
If HMRC are not responding for your appeal, seek advice (CAB, LITRG, Tax Aid, Local Authority Welfare Rights etc...)and see if you can get it listed directly with the appeals service. Don't let them mess around any longer.
Your issue is about entitlement. What you want is entitlement reinstating which will remove the overpayment.
If you dispute - the overpayment would be written off (possibly) but your entitlement would remain nil, which could or could not be relevant down the line.
MF2
Edited to add: Appeals also carry time limits.
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| Willow |
Posted - 29/06/2008 : 19:09:15
Ok, well, I take consolation from the fact that you all are unclear too. I have got complaint letters written already, with the obligatory red letters, and will move on with a dispute status this week I think. I'm unsure that anything other than tax year 07/08 has been written off (as that's what's addressed in the letter generated on 19th June, and I know I'm impatient but unless I get something in the post tomorrow I'm going to assume that 05/06 and 06/07 still show an "overpayment". |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 12:27:16
The fact that we don't know if we should be "appealing" or "disputing" to me shows how badly HMRC have informed us of how this thing is supposed to work and what we should do when it doesn't.
Maybe it also shows how little they know themselves?
I'm thinking that this is yet another issue that should be raised with our MPs and the media.
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 09:20:04
Well, I always thought an 'appeal' challenged a decision HMRC had made about your original entitlement, ie. if they hadn't taken all your kids or a disability into consideration, whilst a 'dispute' was what you did if you had received an overpayment which HMRC was demanding back, and the position as to what level your award should've been at was not easily determined. ie. that you suspect an HMRC error but can't pinpoint, 'you have left my three children off'. But there is often an overlap, so it may well be - as I understand it - that you want to do both. Oh yes, and complain, too! You need to do that in a letter clearly marked 'complant' in red letters three metres high, because otherwise HMRC won't recognise that you are,in fact, complaining about their maladminstration. Stupid, isn't it?
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| Willow |
Posted - 28/06/2008 : 07:53:06
This thread is getting mighty long - right then, here's a question for you - I'm currently at a stage where I'm APPEALING against the amount of entitlement (which they say is zero) and in there is my refusal to pay back the alleged "overpayment" but the more I read posts from Auntie H the more I wonder whether I should DISPUTE? Advice please..... |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 22:49:25
The more letters HMRC send, the more evident are the lies and inconsistencies. I am still waiting to hear from Richard Summersgill why Mr Gordon wrote to me with a pack of lies. Perhaps I should be chasing my official apology, but these days I am too busy chasing MPs, and looking for further support for our campaign. Complaining to HMRC tends to be the first thing that goes these days, more's the pity.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| whitevanwoman |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 22:48:09
Maybe I've got your daughter! That must be it! Cos I've had demands for repayments of child tax credit in previous years - I've got 2 dogs, 2 cats but, to the best of my knowledge, no kids (I can understand a man not knowing whether he's got kids or not, but a woman...?!?) and I've never claimed to have any.
To quote a letter from my MP: "their incompetence never ceases to amaze me" - need we say more!
I still haven't had an award notice yet despite it being nearly 2 weeks now since Becky sorted out my claim, although my renewal pack has come through today - I need to go through it with a fine toothcomb and double check all the details but at first glance it does appear to be correct although it doesn't actually give me any details regarding how much my entitlement is.
Instructions for life:
1.breathe in
2.breathe out
3.repeat ad infinitum
"Realise that if you have time to whine and complain about something then you have the time to do something about it" (Anthony d'Angelo) |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 22:45:31
quote:
Originally posted by Willow
This evening will be spent writing letters - today I got two computer generated letters dated 17th June pertaining to 2007/2008 ("Thank you for telling us about your recent change in circumstances blah blah blah") stating I owe £xxxx for that year - yup - got that one already thanks. Also dated 17th June is one for 2008/2009 - no entitlement.
Then dated 19th June, for 2007/2008, exactly the same letter but on the back I now owe zero. And a repeat of the 17th June letter relating to 2008/2009. Where I have no entitlement.
Now the call I made was on the 26th June so let's see what else turns up in the post - I figure I'm better off drafting letters and complaints tonight and then waiting and adding further points as I do/don't receive contradictory correspondance relating to all three years where I apparently shouldn't have received monies as I have no child.
That sounds a good plan to me. A lot of the time, the hardest thing about fighting HMRC is that we don't have a clue what the hell they are on about, and what their arguments are. Many's a time I haven't responded to an HMRC letter because it totally contradicts something else they sent. You would think, too, that the Adjudicator would go through all the correspondence from HMRC looking for contradictions, compounding errors and unanswered questions from the claimant, and take HMRC to task for this, but she doesn't. Bit like someone standing trial without a clue what they have supposedly done. I do think it helps to get an updated view from HMRC as to their view of what went wrong where, because it then becomes so much easier to identify what daft things they might have done and what they are ignoring from your case history. You can then argue against their false claims.
Trinity: The answer is out there… and it's looking for you, and it will find you if you want it to.
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| Willow |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 16:14:16
This evening will be spent writing letters - today I got two computer generated letters dated 17th June pertaining to 2007/2008 ("Thank you for telling us about your recent change in circumstances blah blah blah") stating I owe £xxxx for that year - yup - got that one already thanks. Also dated 17th June is one for 2008/2009 - no entitlement.
Then dated 19th June, for 2007/2008, exactly the same letter but on the back I now owe zero. And a repeat of the 17th June letter relating to 2008/2009. Where I have no entitlement.
Now the call I made was on the 26th June so let's see what else turns up in the post - I figure I'm better off drafting letters and complaints tonight and then waiting and adding further points as I do/don't receive contradictory correspondance relating to all three years where I apparently shouldn't have received monies as I have no child. |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 11:51:47
>> Please flick back to the previous post (page 3... no jokes, Alan, please!)<<
I no longer have any need for page 3 pin-ups now I have printed the picture of TCC's very own stunner!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 27/06/2008 : 11:28:06
I'm very pleased that you're doing so well, and agree that now is not quite the time for you to relax. That time will be when you have it in writing that everything is ok - and if I were you I'd be after a letter of apology from Jane Kennedy too, just as extra insurance you understand?
Please remember to thank your MP - in writing - if (s)he has been helpful to you,it's all grist to the mill as Ali would say!
Similarly of course, if anyone has found their MP to be "less than helpful" then they should be written to as well telling them exactly what you think of them!!
"Dave Anderson (Labour) MP for Blaydon rocks!!" |
