| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| ATCS |
Posted - 12/03/2008 : 23:06:47
Hi All
I was begining to think I was very alone in the tax credits saga and at the point of giving up.Not exactly something you can discuss with just anyone.
My saga began last year when after correctly filling out the review our award notice was sent out showing that I had an income of £0.00 I rang immediatly to let them know.I was not able to give them exact figures as I'd just had surgery and couldnt get to them .I quoted rough amounts from a previous claim and told them they'd already got the correct info'.
We thought nothing more untill my husband began recieving endless giros.After several phone calls and continually being told they were ours,we spent them.
Then out of the blue we had a letter from the compliance team who were now about to me send "formal notification of her decision".She was basically implied that I'd made a fraudulent claim.She'd even been in touch with my building society and told me of a savings acc I'd forgotten all about!
After many conversations I asked for a copy of my origional review form and it showed that I'd filled it in correctly, yet the computer system hadn't picked it up when it was scanned.
The girl I delt with was lovely (a rarity for the TCO) and advised me to appeal ,which I did.
However, she herself then filled in the Amended forms incorrectly and I had to phone to get it put right.
I did appeal and sent a copy of the correctly filled in review form,only to have my appeal turned down "because I'd phoned to tell them of an increase in my income'!
I'd phoned them to tell them about their mistakes!I've written two futher letters today and have contacted my MP but was wondering has any one one a case where it was computer error?
Sorry its such a long post but its helpful just to be able to talk about it.
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| 20 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 00:36:56
>>I am currently waiting for a reply asking them why they have closed my complaint and they wrote to my MP and told him I was happy with the explanation their staff gave, when the conversation I had was very different.<<
I would suggest that you let your MP know about this - if you haven't already - and make him aware that this is typical of the shifty, slimy way these buggers operate and ask him if he thinks it's acceptable and what's he going to do about it!
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
| ATCS |
Posted - 05/01/2009 : 22:03:49
Hi Ali thanks for your reply.
The TCO have admitted its their error, I have two letters admitting that they "failed to meet their responsibilities as set out in their COP 26" . I also the copy they sent to my MP.
My problem is that despite this admission they took the money back anyway , and have now closed the case. They failed to tell ME they had closed it. I only found out when my MP sent me a copy the TCO's letter.
I am currently waiting for a reply asking them why they have closed my complaint and they wrote to my MP and told him I was happy with the explanation their staff gave, when the conversation I had was very different.
Im expecting a reply sometime this month.
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| Ali M-W |
Posted - 22/12/2008 : 08:21:08
Hi ATCS – why not try a different tack?
Have you heard that HMRC is now using a new COP26 which lists all its responsibilities and all yours?
I went back to your original post to see where you might argue that HMRC had failed to meet its own responsibilities, and where you had met your own (as set out retrospectively by HMRC), and here’s a few ideas for the next letter, if it helps…
First of all, those responsibilities:
HM Revenue and Customs should:
o Give correct advice
o Record and use information accurately
o Correct errors notified by claimant
o Update reported changes in circumstances within 30 days
The main responsibilities for the claimant (from 1 February 2008) are to:
o Give accurate, complete and up to date information
o Report changes in circumstances
o Use the checklist to check every award notice
o Tell HMRC of errors in an award notice within 1 month
o Check that amounts received agree with the award notice
You write: “My saga began last year when after correctly filling out the review our award notice was sent out showing that I had an income of £0.00 I rang immediatly to let them know.I was not able to give them exact figures as I'd just had surgery and couldnt get to them .I quoted rough amounts from a previous claim and told them they'd already got the correct info.”
Okay, so you managed to: “Give accurate, complete and up to date information” and “to check [your] award notice” after which you were able to “tell HMRC of errors in an award notice within 1 month”. And when you write ‘my husband began recieving endless giros.After several phone calls and continually being told they were ours,we spent them’ you are basically showing that HMRC did not ‘Record and use information accurately’ , nor ‘correct errors notified by claimant’ , nor ‘Give correct advice’, nor probably even ‘Update reported changes in circumstances within 30 days’.
Even under the old ‘reasonable belief’ criteria you have a good case – if you can prove with CDs of your calls that you were told your award was correct – for write-off, but under the new COP26 it seems that you met all your responsibilities but HMRC failed all theirs!
I would suggest writing along these lines to HMRC, and copying this to the Tax Credit Casualties and your MP, and you can then see what happens. Good luck!
Trinity: No one has ever done anything like this.
Neo: That's why it's going to work.
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| ATCS |
Posted - 18/12/2008 : 10:13:53
Sorry for not replying sooner have had big problems with our internet connection, some time it works and most of the time it doesnt!
It is the other Michael Foster (not Michael Jabez Foster). I did mention to his secretary that I was going to speak to my husbands accountant and I'm not sure whether the reference to the accountant stems from that.
I did ring our accountant (he apparently used to work for inland revenue many years ago and knows what they are like). He told me that he didn't get involved in tax issues, but when I told him that I thought the tax office had reclaimed back what they had previously written off he did agree to look at the papers.
He has spoken to my husband and said that he is very busy at the moment and hasnt had chance to look at it.
However whether he does or doesnt I dont feel able to chase it up as we cant afford to pay him.
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| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 15/12/2008 : 08:48:04
>>It must be the other Michael Foster. You could try writing to him pointing out that his namesake is more helpful than he is, or - if it does turn out to be your MP - ask him why his rhetoric is so at odds with the reality of his support (or lack of it)? Just a thought...<<
I agree.
But if it's the same bloke or not he shouldn't be allowed to wriggle off the hook.
His salary is paid by YOU therefore he works for YOU and it's up to YOU to make sure that he does!!
No nurse, I said "Are my test results back?" NOT "Are my testicles black?" .. but thanks anyway!! |
| Ali M-W |
Posted - 15/12/2008 : 07:17:40
If I remember right, there's more than one Michael Foster. Doesn't sound like it's Michael Jabez Foster or he might be more sympathetic:
If tax credits can be criticised, it must surely be on the grounds that they are just too complex. The average recipient relies entirely on official calculations, and it is nigh on impossible to know whether payments are right or wrong… one simply hopes that the outcome is correct…A benefit should always have two qualities: knowledge of eligibility and knowledge whether what one receives is right or wrong. It is a simple test that tax credits, sadly, do not meet….Through my constituency casework, I have been made aware of several cases…in which an award has been terminated after failure to finalise within the permitted deadline. When that happens, the whole amount paid during the tax year becomes recoverable, even if the family’s circumstances meant that they were fully entitled to all that they received…In many cases, sums of £5,000 or £7,000…are being demanded…Sometimes it is alleged that the forms have been returned, but the Revenue denies receipt. Who knows? I do know, however, that the draconian policy in such situations causes harm…families are being asked to pay, out of no income or a reduced income, an award to which they were entitled, and are thus being plunged into poverty. That cannot be right….I am talking about people who are entitled to the payments that they receive, but who through administrative failure…are penalised in the way that I have described. To plunge deliberately such families into poverty is not just an administrative failing, but something of which we should be ashamed….I can think of no other part of the tax system that imposes penalties as draconian as the loss of one’s entire benefit, as does the tax credit system. Given its purpose, the ombudsman is quite right when she said that to deny reinstatement causes “far too harsh a penalty for the delay, works entirely against the policy objectives of the scheme and unnecessarily causes customers avoidable distress and hardship”…. I want the Government to deal with it now. They have had long enough. There is no excuse or moral or legal reason it should not happen immediately. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm081022/halltext/81022h0011.htm
OCT 12 - “MORE COMPASSION NEEDED WITH TAX CREDIT OVERPAYMENTS” SAYS MP Hastings and Rye MP Michael Foster has tabled a parliamentary motion calling for greater leniency to be shown to people who receive tax credit overpayments in error… http://www.michaelfoster.org.uk/4cbe0dfd-ed00-a694-419c-1bad4dcd30cd
It must be the other Michael Foster. You could try writing to him pointing out that his namesake is more helpful than he is, or - if it does turn out to be your MP - ask him why his rhetoric is so at odds with the reality of his support (or lack of it)? Just a thought...
Trinity: No one has ever done anything like this.
Neo: That's why it's going to work.
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| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 14/12/2008 : 13:51:21
>>I did repond to my MP letter to say how very disappointed I was with his reply! Probably not as strongly as I should have done.<<<
Well it will do for openers. You can always write a follow-up telling him what a totally useless pillock he has been to you, and not to expect any votes from you, any of your family members or friends & neighbours and suggest he seeks an alternative career - maybe picking-up litter from the streets?
No nurse, I said "Are my test results back?" NOT "Are my testicles black?" .. but thanks anyway!! |
| ATCS |
Posted - 14/12/2008 : 00:04:35
Have had no internet connection for over a week so havent been able to post.
I did repond to my MP letter to say how very disappointed I was with his reply! Probably not as strongly as I should have done.
My MP is Michael Foster. I have to say his secretary with whom I had many a conversation was lovely.
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| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 04/12/2008 : 00:46:07
One of our struggling members of this forum is an accountant!!
Sez it all really.
BTW, who is this bloody idiot masquerading as an MP anyway??
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
| auntieh |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 20:50:48
Accountants are no more skilled at understanding the Tax credit system than anyone else. I recall that 'Watchdog' got three acountants to calculate somebody's entitlement a few years ago and they each came up with a different answer, none of which were correct if I remember rightly.
You should point this out to your MP, who has no business suggesting such a thing in the first place. If he can't understand the system and therefore cannot support his constituents, he should be saying so very loudly in Parliament and demanding some action. Then he would be working for you. Doesn't sound as though he is at the moment.
Auntie
"You can dress a pig in a suit but you can't stop it grunting" |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 14:40:01
>> I think there is information there on how to make your MP act for you. <<
Failing that, I've often found that a swift kick in the crutch often achieves wonders!!
But seriously, MPs are supposed to work for YOU . YOU are their employer & it does no harm to remind them of this & to tell them that they should not be expecting your support when they need it at election time if they're not prepared to do the job that YOU'VE told them to do.
And please note; .. instead of "asking" them to act on your behalf, try TELLING them!!
(Yes, I know I'm a belligerent Geordie B*****d, but I'm a belligerent Geordie B*****d who won his case & owes HMRC nothing!!   )
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
| Sarah |
Posted - 03/12/2008 : 12:44:31
What a cheek from your MP! MPs are obliged to help you whether they agree or not with tax credits and regardless of their level of understanding of the system.
Have a look on They Work for You on the web - Ithink there is information there on how to make your MP act for you. |
| ATCS |
Posted - 01/12/2008 : 22:53:57
Hi all, just to bring you up to date, have recently received a letter from my MP. Who says that hes not an expert in tax credits and suggests that I contact an accountant! I'm not sure where he thinks I'm going to get the money to pay one!
He goes on to tell me that at the end of this financial year adjustment are made to our final assessment which will resolve the problem regaring the overpayment. Why do I have to wait to the end of the finacial year why can't they pay the money back now?
However, since then I'v spoken to Tax Aid. The advisor went through the payments on my last award notice and she agreed that the TCO had taken the overpayment back. She also said that despite the fact that the £2498 is shown as an adjustment in the overpayments section we haven't recieved it because it hasn't been included in the calculations "How we work out your tax credits"
Sandra advised me to contact the adudicators office and they said that there are two levels of complaint and that I now need to go to level 2 before they can help.
Here's hoping! |
| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 16/11/2008 : 12:14:09
quote:
Originally posted by ATCS
Well I should be used to them by now, but the TCO never cease to amaze me. 
I’ve just received my copy of the reply to my MP. In it they say that I was satisfied with their explanation and I agreed to close the complaint.
Another letter is on its way to them! 
Further proof that they really are a bunch of lying barstewards!!
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
| ATCS |
Posted - 15/11/2008 : 21:13:40
Well I should be used to them by now, but the TCO never cease to amaze me.
I’ve just received my copy of the reply to my MP. In it they say that I was satisfied with their explanation and I agreed to close the complaint.
Another letter is on its way to them!
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| Alan the Geordie |
Posted - 14/11/2008 : 19:49:33
Well done!!
Keep on their backs & eventually you'll break them!!
"The best way to take control over a people and control them utterly is to take a little of their freedom at a time, to erode rights by a thousand tiny and almost imperceptible
reductions. In this way the people will not see those rights and freedoms being removed until past the point at which these changes cannot be reversed."
Adolf Hitler |
| ATCS |
Posted - 14/11/2008 : 11:49:18
Last night I tried to post what was said in my conversation with the TCOs office unfortunatly before I managed to get it on to the site I lost it all.
Heres hoping it go OK now.
When I first spoke to the advisor she agreed that there was an overpayment and that it had now been remitted.
I asked why the "£2774 had been collected back from future awards" and was told that this was a "miswording" and that she was going to speak to policy about it. It was probably a little too clear that the money had been collected back!
I asked why their figures were different to mine and was told that my figures predated theirs and that’s why they’ve sent me the computer snapshots. I was also told once a year had been finalised it cannot be changed. That’s strange because I have 3 finalised notices for 2006/07 and I told her so.
I asked if the £2774 hadn’t been collected back how come that was the same amount that they told my MP that I owed when he first became involved. I was told it was a “misprint” on my finalised notice. She again referred to it as a “miss wording” later. I asked if could have a correct copy and was told no, that’s why I’d been sent the computer snapshots. If they did sent me a copy it would be exactly the same as what I’ve got now because policy would not have had a chance to change anything.
I asked about my hubbys income and was told that there was very little change in working tax credits between 17300 and 15000 which again doesn’t add up because my husband is getting nearly £100 a month more than last year.
She referred to an adjustment in the finalised year 2007/08 of which they did remit and I asked why wasn’t the £2774 also done it that year .Her answer was it wasn’t live then. Yet it’s shown as an adjustment in 2006/07 in their computer snapshots when it hadn’t even happened! We Joe Public are supposed to understand all this!
I was determined she was not going to confuse me and I continually fired questions at her regarding the overpayment and my hubbys income. She eventually admitted that we had been paid too much wtc for the 2006/07 year and that’s why there was a reduction in what we were paid the following year.
I finished the conversation saying that I still was not happy with her answers and that I would be speaking to my MP again.
When I spoke with my MP’s secretary the following day I explained what had happened, and how I was concerned that she had referred to the collection of the money as a “misprint “and miss wording” yet she wouldn’t send me correct versions of the notices. The secretary told me she was glad I’d phoned because the tco advisor had been in touch and asked to close the case. She was informed that she could not do this without answering the letter from the MP first.
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| ATCS |
Posted - 13/11/2008 : 21:35:03
Last week the TCO office phoned me after being contacted by my MP. The person I spoke to was one of their senior advisors who speak on the MP’s hotline.
Prior to her call, I had contacted my MP again after being sent papers from the TCO to show me that there was no overpayment outstanding. What I received were computer snapshot s of what had been paid to me over the years that I have claimed tax credits. What I received, and what I already had in my position from the TCO regarding award notices and finalised years did not match. Surely they should!
The TCO showed my overpayment as an adjustment in the year 2006/07 i.e. it was written off.
In their finalised year 2007/08 there is an adjustment of £548.25
In their current there are no adjustments or overpayments.
However, my finalised award notices show very differently.
My finalised year 2006/07 shows an overpayment of “£2774 which will be collected from future awards” no adjustments are mentioned.
It worth noting at this stage that the £2774 is £2498 plus £275. Our overpayment of £2498 when added to the o/s £275 from the previous year becomes “hidden” and not obvious when mentioned on future awards.
On my finalised year 2007/8 it shows clearly “£2774 has already been collected from later awards”
On the current year 2008/09 shows “£2798 is an adjustment to put your record right”. I’m no accountant and please correct me if I’m wrong but if an adjustment is put in the beginning and is adjusted at the end of the year, it was never truly there to begin with.
I’m going to post this now before I lose.
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| ATCS |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 10:42:53
They worked, they're going to be everywhere now! |
| ATCS |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 10:39:20
Splashin
I’ve just read my previous post and I'm not sure that what I've written is clear. The overpayment was for the year 06/ 07; the computer zeroed my income when I sent in the annual declaration in July 07. The overpayment occurred from Aug 07 to Oct 07.
I also have 2 children both are at school and there are no childcare costs involved.
Right now for the other bits
During the year 06/07 pretty much all of the income shots have both the letters S and E against them. In various bits there is an ALERT against my name (I'm now feeling quite paranoid). I think this was when we had problems with the calculations when my daughter was at nursery during 03/04 (down to wrong info from there so called helpline).
For year 07/08 there is an S against my husband’s income and an E against mine. A bit further on still on 07/08 there is an alert against my name (now I am paranoid ). Further on from that they all go back to E.
That's the letters delt with, now for the other codes.
TC602
AT-ST01 PY-1or earlier change- I understand the rest.
SL11 - S17 incomplete
Inappropriate zeros removed from claim 1 emp inc event date 5.4.07 creation date 31.7.07
There is also a screen snapshot showing the overpayment of £2498 as an adjustment in the finalised year 06/07. How can that be right?
The overpayment didn't occur until the tax year 07/08.
Now, there is another bit that clearly is nothing to do with this overpayment but says "This case has been affected by the running of TT508051" We did have a nursery overpayment which we paid back. Would this anything to do with that?
Hope that all makes sense for you Splashin
Many Thanks
Ive just learnt how to do the smilies ,hope I,ve used the correct ones
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